The Rhodebar thread!

[RedRidge]

Here Here Tim.... If you think about it in the days that the Autosexing breeds were being created they did not think of using "dark barring"... The way they breed BPR back then... was to use double mating... to get the males and females about the same color....I have a copy of the thesis paper from the UBC that created the Barred New Hampshire or Hampbar if you'd like a copy... ? Take a look at this web page maybe you have seen it but it gives good info on Rhodebars...

http://www.harislau.info/rhodebar


Keith

Great link Keith... I had not seen that one...
Thank you.

 

[nicalandia]

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Oh I am sure GFF didnt have the intention on producing "Dark Barred" birds by crossing to legbar. they only did it to retain the autosexing trait..

 

[nicalandia]

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Tim, 3 to 4 Barring gene mutants have been Sequenced(Genetic DNA) some of these genes have to behave different than normal Barring gene. you know like how B^SD behaves as producing an almost white Rooster and a Barred looking hens? maybe B1 or B2 wont dilute the roosters eumelanin and pheomelanin as muchif at all like "Normal" barring found on American/British Barred rock.. Tim I am sure you know Mrs. KazJaps right? she is such a dedicated poster at "the Coop" forums.. here is the link of the Topic at "The Coop" http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=107300&page=all scroll to post# 107423 here is the link of the full paper of different Barring genes(B1, B2 and so forth) http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-148X.2010.00700.x/full now I believe the Dark Barring we see on the Cream Legbars specially on the chick down on the male said is due to this. different type of barring

 

[tadkerson]

Tim, 3 to 4 Barring gene mutants have been Sequenced(Genetic DNA) some of these genes have to behave different than normal Barring gene. you know like how B^SD behaves as producing an almost white Rooster and a Barred looking hens? maybe B1 or B2 wont dilute the roosters eumelanin and pheomelanin as muchif at all like "Normal" barring found on American/British Barred rock..Tim I am sure you know Mrs. KazJaps right? she is such a dedicated poster at "the Coop" forums..here is the link of the Topic at "The Coop" http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=107300&page=all scroll to post# 107423 here is the link of the full paper of different Barring genes(B1, B2 and so forth)http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1755-148X.2010.00700.x/fullnow I believe the Dark Barring we see on the Cream Legbars specially on the chick down on the male said is due to this. different type of barring

The paper is very interesting but no where in the paper does it say that the three different alleles produce three different phenotypes.

All three alleles are responsible for one phenotype which is operationally defined as sex-linked barring. No where in the paper does it indicate one barring allele causes a different phenotype than another.

It has been published (the research) that different E locus alleles produce different down colors in chicks. It has also been published that the down color can be effected by the barring gene and other genes found in the chick. I think it is best to use the known research and come up with an answer.

Tim

 

[RedRidge]

My Rhodebar are 4 weeks old, so I figured it was time for some new pics...

 

[RedRidge]

Whoops... here's the other...

 

[nicalandia]

It has been published (the research) that different E locus alleles produce different down colors in chicks. It has also been published that the down color can be effected by the barring gene and other genes found in the chick. I think it is best to use the known research and come up with an answer.

Tim

while this is true, I have yet to see a chick down(of any kind) and adult feathers not affected by homozygous sex linked barring, yet some strains of Legbar birds show no dilution at. all the chick´s down of the male is affected by double barring like the headspot and undefined back and head chipmunk strips yet they remain a Dark color and this persist to adult hood and they are confirmed double barred, I have yet to see a "Dark Barred" australian Rock chick but I certain that the chick down is as unaffected by double barring as the grown males dark barring.

 

[tadkerson]

, yet some strains of Legbar birds show no dilution at. all the chick´s down of the male is affected by double barring like the headspot and undefined back and head chipmunk strips yet they remain a Dark color and this persist to adult hood and they are confirmed double barred,

"yet some strains of Legbar birds show no dilution at." Please explain this statement. I do not understand what you have written. The statement does not fit in with what you have written in the rest of the post.

Tim

 

[nicalandia]

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I believe the reason for the Rich colored Legbars found on Green Fire Farms are not due to single barring which will not dilute the Pheomelanin or eumelanin on a barred crele male. as you would know a single barred male's eumelanin and pheomelanin are not as diluted(or not diluted at all) with a single dose of the sex linked barring gene. this can be seen on Henk's crele Dutch bantams which are not known to be red enhanced here single barred cockerels http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/d/d4/500x1000px-LL-d4272b95_HeterozygousCrele1.jpeg and here the Double Barred Sire of those cockerels(confirmed by Henk) http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/b/bc/500x331px-LL-bc9d88a8_hollandse_kriel_koekoekpatrijs.jpeg the Dilution on the Male can be seen as chick. single barred chicks are not diluted while double barred males are much lighter than single barred males or crele females.. now the the "Dark Barred" Legbars and the "Dark Barring" gene proposed by me. IF the Dark Barring wont affect the Males plumage at adulthood it wont affect its Chick down neither...thats for the Dark Barred Rocks on Australia... But this can also be seen on the "Cream Lebars" specially the ones on GFF... the chicks that Hatch Dark will remain Dark as adults.. Dark Chick from GFF

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Dark Male from GFF

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now some "Dark" vs "Light" Barred chicks on the same Hatch...

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I believe what we are seeing on the Light vs Dark males on the Legbar thread is the Dark Barring vs Light Barring or Normal Barring. effect on chick down. normal Barring should have the same effect across e alleles independenly of e+ mutations or different e+ alleles,

 

[tadkerson]

Greenfire farms are selling a bunch of barnyard specials. The male in the picture appears to be a brown red with cream dilution and autosomal red. Take away the barring and cream gene and you have a crow wing with a red pyle zone ( minus the wing bay). You only see the pictures of the birds they want you to see. The females all appear to be wild type which is evident in the breast color.

The genotype of the bird effects the expression of the barring gene. The barring gene can only do one thing in the adult plumage; in a general sense turn on color and turn off color due to the death of melanocytes ( pigment containing packages in the cell) . When the color is switched on, the feather has pigments ( located in the melanocytes) added to the feather according to the birds genotype. A genetically darker bird will be barred and darker while a genetically lighter bird will be lighter.

The barring gene does the same thing in the down of the chick. Two barring genes make the white bars larger because of an increased melanocyte death producing a lighter down color.

My hypothesis based upon the available research.

Males that carry two barring genes, that have a female (single barred) phenotype, carry gene(s) that modify the expression of the two barring genes. The modifiers interfere with the death of the melanocytes so you get larger dark bars.

Tim