The Rhodebar thread!

[RedRidge]

 

 
I am new to wild type down and barring but why would being double barred lighten the color of the chicks??? Barred rocks and cuckoos even golden cuckoos are not lighter at hatch with double barring.  The lighter look comes later as the barring starts to express.  The yellow is WHEATEN the dar ker chicks didn't get 2 copies of recessive wheaten.

It is due to the E locus. in barred rocks it is the Black allele E/E for the down color and even though it the dosing effect doesn't lighten the down except for making the head spot bigger, it does inhibit the black pigment in the shanks causing males to have lighter colored shanks than females in barred rocks.  But on the wild type and some others of the e locus the whole chick is affected by the dosage effect.

I will disagree with your about the leg color on BR..... my Heritage Barred Rocks don't follow that at ALL..... neither do they follow the bigger head spot.  I can't sex my GSBR at all.... never have been able too.  Hatchery BR birds yes.  Cuckoo Marans I can sex mostly by the spot.

Can I ask why we keep going back to RIR?  Why not Barred Rocks????  Could you put your Rhodebar Roos Barred Rocks?  If they are single barred and need type and size could you not work that direction? 

The rhodebar was developed (in theory) from Brussbars and RIR. They should be an autosexed, barred RIR.
The RIR type is what you are looking for. Barred Rocks have a very different type. Could you create an auto sexed bird with infusing Rocks? Yes. But in my opinion it would not be arhodebar.
Remember the "reason" some of us are infusing new RIR blood into existing Rhodebars. .. Because the Rhodebars need to blood to improve and RIR "could" provide that improvement if chosen carefully.
There are a lot of crosses you could do to create a new auto sexed breed. .. we are not trying to create a new breed, we are simply trying to improve am existing one.

 

[RedRidge]

So back to the poster with the new chicks. ..
IF those are pure rhodebar then all the cockerels will be double barred. As a matter of fact, the coloring and barring on the cockerels as adult roos will be very similar. However, for ease of auto sexing in future generations you would be wise to choose the darker down cockerels for breeding.
If they are not purebred Rhodebars then that is a different conversation.

 

[mrshawman]

That is great info! Now for the dumb question. How do you tell a single from a double bar? Also in mature birds. I don't have a clue what separates one from the other.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Double Barring Does Dilute Males Chick down, its the nature of the Barring gene(at least the normal barring gene, other mutant genes have been sequenced by geneticists) the yellow Chick is not Wheaten, wheaten Cant be Autosex, thats the reason the Rhodebar was created and the creators had to add the autosexing e+(wiltype e allele) to the mix, I mean if wheaten was that easy to autosex(just add sexlink barring) changing the e allele from wheaten to wildtype would not be necessary at all would it? just think about it.. Then Why the Difference of shade? I will get to that point... 2 possible reasons. First one knowing Green FireFarm previous history of crossing Rhodebars to Legbars(bad Idea) as not to lose the autosexing trait, they not only introduced the blue egg shell gene(some of thise Rhodebars from GFF lay green eggs) they also introduced the "Dark Chick Down" e+ allele found on Cream Legbars...... but whats the Dark chick down gene? its a gene introduced by Dr. Punnett when he introduced the Danish leghorn to the legbar to encrease egg production, the issue was that in doing so they introduce a mutant e+ allele that darken the chick down(and to some extent the final color but less) you can see this on the Cream Legbar thread, same Hatchlinks both males and both double barred but one with dark chick down and the other with a light chick down.. I'll post pics my research...

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

Very true. I had a blond chick hatch late, you can't see a head spot at all. Thanks for all the help!

This is all fascinating, thank you for starting this discussion! What was your final count of eggs hatched to # set, and what is the male/female count? Out of those and from the discussion here, how many of those chicks do you think you will be able to carry forward in your Rhodebar program? Thanks a bunch!

 

[RedRidge]

Quote:
Double Barring Does Dilute Males Chick down, its the nature of the Barring gene(at least the normal barring gene, other mutant genes have been sequenced by geneticists) the yellow Chick is not Wheaten, wheaten Cant be Autosex, thats the reason the Rhodebar was created and the creators had to add the autosexing e+(wiltype e allele) to the mix, I mean if wheaten was that easy to autosex(just add sexlink barring) changing the e allele from wheaten to wildtype would not be necessary at all would it? just think about it.. Then Why the Difference of shade? I will get to that point... 2 possible reasons. First one knowing Green FireFarm previous history of crossing Rhodebars to Legbars(bad Idea) as not to lose the autosexing trait, they not only introduced the blue egg shell gene(some of thise Rhodebars from GFF lay green eggs) they also introduced the "Dark Chick Down" e+ allele found on Cream Legbars...... but whats the Dark chick down gene? its a gene introduced by Dr. Punnett when he introduced the Danish leghorn to the legbar to encrease egg production, the issue was that in doing so they introduce a mutant e+ allele that darken the chick down(and to some extent the final color but less) you can see this on the Cream Legbar thread, same Hatchlinks both males and both double barred but one with dark chick down and the other with a light chick down.. I'll post pics my research...

And THIS is the reason I will not purchase any chicks from anyone who did not photo and document egg color. I want to be able to provide brown egg color proof to any future customers and so should everyone else. I have not had anything but brown eggs here but if I did they would be in the frying pan and those genetics in the freezer

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
thats correct... here check how CCL from get Dark and Light down on Male chicks, keep in mind these birds are double barred, I believe this is what is going on with this Rhodebar chicks, they picked up the dark e+ wildtype e allele from the CLL when GFF crossed them...
Quote:

 

[DMRippy]

Someone please post a pic of what a Rhodebar male and female chick SHOULD LOOK LIKE!!!! and what the adult male and female should look like. I have seen colors all over the place and just have NO IDEA WHAT THEY SHOULD LOOK LIKE!!!!

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

Someone please post a pic of what a Rhodebar male and female chick SHOULD LOOK LIKE!!!! and what the adult male and female should look like. I have seen colors all over the place and just have NO IDEA WHAT THEY SHOULD LOOK LIKE!!!!

X2. I "thought" I knew what they should look like, but.....

 

[mrshawman]

6 out of 10 hatched. 3 males 3 hens. I have 10 set to hatch tomorrow, and 12 on Saturday. All three different sellers. I am anxious to see the results! I was hoping to get a good start with a breeding stock out of the three hatches. I also have 12 HRIR coming to help out. I just need to learn more!