The Right to Grow and Raise Your Own Food

[Florida Bullfrog]

I’ve looked through this thread.

As an attorney myself, I often run into lay people who confuse “what the law is” with “what the law ought to be,” and people have a tendency to conflate their view of “what the law ought to be” with whether something is a “constitutional right.” If a person feels strongly enough about the “ought to be,” they almost always to declare it to be a right enshrined by the Bill of Rights in the Federal Constitution, even if there is no historical or legal basis for whatever it is to be considered a Constitutional Right.

There’s no Right to Raise Chickens in the Federal Constitution. Your milage may vary in state constitutions. If you think that right should exist in the Bill of Rights, the Founders gave us an amendment process by which new Rights can be added.

 

[MOpalB]

I’ve looked through this thread.

As an attorney myself, I often run into lay people who confuse “what the law is” with “what the law ought to be,” and people have a tendency to conflate their view of “what the law ought to be” with whether something is a “constitutional right.” If a person feels strongly enough about the “ought to be,” they almost always to declare it to be a right enshrined by the Bill of Rights in the Federal Constitution, even if there is no historical or legal basis for whatever it is to be considered a Constitutional Right.

There’s no Right to Raise Chickens in the Federal Constitution. Your milage may vary in state constitutions. If you think that right should exist in the Bill of Rights, the Founders gave us an amendment process by which new Rights can be added.

I am not an attorney but I am one of We the People who fully comprehend that I have unalienable rights. As long as my actions cause no harm or damage to another or their property there is no crime. The issue with the current "legal" system is that it turns everyday people into common criminals with their multitude of codes and rules to turn a quick buck for the city/county/state. I do not believe I ever said the "right to raise chickens" was in the Constitution. I have the right to own property just as everyone else does. The man posing as "code enforcement" came onto my property trying to regulate my property. What gives him the right to decide what I should and should not own?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I am not an attorney but I am one of We the People who fully comprehend that I have unalienable rights. As long as my actions cause no harm or damage to another or their property there is no crime. The issue with the current "legal" system is that it turns everyday people into common criminals with their multitude of codes and rules to turn a quick buck for the city/county/state. I do not believe I ever said the "right to raise chickens" was in the Constitution. I have the right to own property just as everyone else does. The man posing as "code enforcement" came onto my property trying to regulate my property. What gives him the right to decide what I should and should not own?

Him? Nothing.

The State he represents? The US Constitution, and your local State Constitution. Both of which authorize the creation of statutes and regulations which supplant the old "common law".

Also, you don't own your land. You hold it for your local lords, oft inattentive though they may be (the municipality, county, and state in which you reside) in a fashion rather akin to the medival concept of usufruct. Don't believe me? Stop paying your property taxes, see what happens. Still not convinced, and your property taxes are up to date? See how successful you are in keeping it when your local lord wants to give it to another owner in the name of "public works".

You are fighting a battle lost before the formation of the Continental Congress - before the formation of the Thirteen Colonies in fact.

 

[Bhubbard]

Him? Nothing.

The State he represents? The US Constitution, and your local State Constitution. Both of which authorize the creation of statutes and regulations which supplant the old "common law".

Also, you don't own your land. You hold it for your local lords, oft inattentive though they may be (the municipality, county, and state in which you reside) in a fashion rather akin to the medival concept of usufruct. Don't believe me? Stop paying your property taxes, see what happens. Still not convinced, and your property taxes are up to date? See how successful you are in keeping it when your local lord wants to give it to another owner in the name of "public works".

You are fighting a battle lost before the formation of the Continental Congress - before the formation of the Thirteen Colonies in fact.

Sad. But true.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

I am not an attorney but I am one of We the People who fully comprehend that I have unalienable rights. As long as my actions cause no harm or damage to another or their property there is no crime. The issue with the current "legal" system is that it turns everyday people into common criminals with their multitude of codes and rules to turn a quick buck for the city/county/state. I do not believe I ever said the "right to raise chickens" was in the Constitution. I have the right to own property just as everyone else does. The man posing as "code enforcement" came onto my property trying to regulate my property. What gives him the right to decide what I should and should not own?

The “ought to” and the “is” are two different things.

The “is” is that state and local governments have the legal authority to regulate whether you can use your land for raising livestock or not. Citizens have tried to challenge it on Constitutional grounds and failed. There is no fundamental right recognized in Constitutional caselaw for your property to be free of regulation.

You’re actually arguing the “ought to.” Which is fine, its just that the “ought to” isn’t what wins in court. The “ought to” might win an election and implement the policies you agree with. Such as freer land use in municipalities. But that’s where “The People” come in. If you want chickens in a place where chickens are prohibited, you won’t win with bogus lawsuits and bad legal arguments. But you might win in the court of public opinion and get policy makers elected who will change the rules. That’s where your efforts need to lay.

 

[MOpalB]

Him? Nothing.

The State he represents? The US Constitution, and your local State Constitution. Both of which authorize the creation of statutes and regulations which supplant the old "common law".

Also, you don't own your land. You hold it for your local lords, oft inattentive though they may be (the municipality, county, and state in which you reside) in a fashion rather akin to the medival concept of usufruct. Don't believe me? Stop paying your property taxes, see what happens. Still not convinced, and your property taxes are up to date? See how successful you are in keeping it when your local lord wants to give it to another owner in the name of "public works".

You are fighting a battle lost before the formation of the Continental Congress - before the formation of the Thirteen Colonies in fact.

I know we have spoke on this issue in the past so we will have to agree to disagree I suppose. Unless you have a land patent, you own the structures on your land but you do not own the dirt and that is why you pay property taxes. If you get a land patent for your property, you lawfully no longer have to pay property taxes. That is how you successfully do not pay property taxes by actually owning the land.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

. If you get a land patent for your property, you lawfully no longer have to pay property taxes. That is how you successfully do not pay property taxes by actually owning the land.

That is not true, its just an often repeated internet myth.

http://www.myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/D1F29E1BB8E97359852578B10078216F

All a land patent amounts to is an original deed from a sovereign government to a person or legal entity. For example, the US government conquers the land of a Native American tribe. Its now legally US government land. The government then issues me a land patent giving me 80 acres. Its now my land. The territory the land is becomes a new states several years later. I am now subject to that state or local government’s property tax.

All land in the US was granted by a land patent at some point. That’s just the starting point in the chain of ownership. It has nothing to do with property taxes.

 

[MOpalB]

The point of me sharing what is happening to me has gotten WAY off track. It seems that the majority are perfectly happy doing as they are told, not questioning “authority” and completely ignoring the protection of their freedom. I was not going to respond further but honestly I cannot stand to see others spreading so much negativity and making others lose hope in their situation.

We the People have the unalienable right in a free republic to acquire, utilize and "own" property. We the People have the unalienable right to have and hold that property free and clear of government liens and encumbrances. These rights have NOT been abridged, although they have come under attack by the government and the principles/creditors controlling it.

We the People must understand not only our rights, but how to acquire, utilize and “own” property as it was intended by our founding fathers and guaranteed in the United States of America. We the People must understand not only the nature of money, but the political, economic and legal systems to be able to claim our rights to acquire and “own” land. You cannot trust the government, the corporations, the media or the educational system to educate you, or fully disclose honest information about your property rights.

As a result of generations of constructive fraud perpetuated against the American people we’ve been conned into believing we are ‘owning’ property, when in fact, and by their laws, we’re only in “possession” of property utilizing it as a renter or tenant would. So long as we pay our rent (property taxes), get the licenses, pay the fees, have it insured, regulated, zoned and permitted, we can still remain in “possession”.

BUT as soon as we exercise what we believe is our right to do as we please with our private property, providing we don’t damage or injure another or their property, we often get slam-dunked by a fine, eviction or foreclosure. Leaning about allodial titles, land patents, deeds and conveyances will reassert our right to private property.

An allodial title was bestowed, by law, upon the land with UNALIENABILITY FOREVER! No government, agency, bank or other power could place any lien, attachment or encumbrance on land held in an allodial state. An allodial title is derived from the original federal land patent. Land patents are still today the highest evidence of title and have never been refuted by any court of competent jurisdiction.

All federal Land Patents flow from the treaty (e.g. The Oregon Treaty, 9 Stat, 869, 6/15/1846), therefore no state, private banking corporation or other federal agency can effectively challenge the superiority of title to land holders who have “perfected” their land patent. With an updated land patent brought forward in “Your Name” you can hold the rights and title to land as the Owner.

“Land Patents are issued (and theoretically passed) between sovereigns. Deeds are executed by ‘persons’ and private corporations without these sovereign powers.” -Leading Fighter vs. County of Gregory, 230 N.W.2d.114.116(1975)

Property tax attaches to the equitable title and interest in the property and real estate through a hidden federal lien. If the property and real estate is recorded with a deed (i.e. Trust Deed, Warranty Deed, Quit Claim Deed) at the county recorders office, then it’s trust property executed and managed by the legal owners — the County, State, and federal United States government corporation, and it’s principals/creditors.

They are the legal owners of the recorded property and real estate, and they can require you, the tenant, to get building permits, abide by zoning restrictions, pay property taxes and other statutory regulations including environmental laws because it’s NOT your property or real estate. Most Americans are simply glorified “tenants” on what they erroneously believe is “their” property and real estate.

The Land Patent is the only evidence of title to land. Land Patents are derived from the treaties and enabling acts of congress under the signature of the president of the United States when each state entered the Union.

Honestly, I could write a book, but those in opposition and uninterested in protecting their freedom would still be in disagreement with me. Those that are willing to put forth the effort to learn how to reclaim their freedom will do just that.

I OWN my land. I have my perfected land patent. Guess who does not get a property tax statement in the mail? Tell yourself it is impossible all you want because you create your reality and that is why this county is in the state that it is currently in — there are far to many Americans that are perfectly happy believing that there is nothing they can do to fight the powers that be and that is what gives them their power and keeps you in servitude. Fear keeps them on top.

We are not the same. I refuse to bow down and live as less than what I was created to be. The more I study the more I see how repugnant this government has become and I will not allow it to smother me any longer.

They keep telling you that 'you will own nothing and be happy' but honestly it seems like we are already at that point for the majority.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Again, this is simply wrong as a matter of law.

Whether is **should be** or not is an entirely different question. Neither did I ever suggest I was happy about it.

but as the law currently stands? You are wrong from the start.

 

[MOpalB]

This is not simply the way it "should be" or "ought to be" this is the way it is. They are tricky and deceitful. However, if you do nothing to reclaim what was stolen from you then who is the party at fault?
Obviously what I just posted above is "not wrong as a matter of law" because if it were I would not be able to have my perfected land patent and have opted out of the property tax system. Even when someone says - Hey, look what I have done everyone!! Look at the information I have found!! Let's learn how to be free!!! -- the majority will tell you that you are wrong and it can't be done that way...yet I have done it and I am doing it...soooo......tell me again how I am wrong