The road less traveled...back to good health! They have lice, mites, scale mites, worms, anemia, gl

[Beekissed]

Daily update on the Gnarly Bunch: Three eggs today, 2 very large, one medium. It's very cold and damp today, so the chooks aren't ranging much and they didn't particularly care for the cold, FF given to eat today. I can't say I blame them and I hesitate to chill their core in this kind of weather.

So, for the winter, I plan to suspend feeding fermented grains and go back to my standard feeding method of just dry layer ration and whole grain mix. I don't want to complicate things by planning methods of keeping the mash warm for them so the dry, which is what they have always been fed in the past, will have to suffice. They have gotten a good dose of probios so far and will continue to get it in the ACV in the water.

They really went after the dry feed ration on this chilly ol' day and it confirmed my thoughts on it...they don't want cold food on a cold day. Same feed, one dry, one wet and fermented..the choice was clear.

The dog, on the other hand, slurped up the cold mash that I dumped out on the ground and though it was a tasty treat...cold or not.

 

[loanwizard]

Really quick on the fermented feed arena. I somewhere got the idea that it took 2 weeks to a month to get feed to ferment instead of a day or two. As you know Bee, I have 85 birds more or less and was wondering, how much to start using crumbles, not pellets, and how do you feed them? You just glop some down in the gutter/trough and let them go at it?

What percentage in feed did it save you on your meat birds? 25% 50%?

Any thoughts if it would be healthy for hogs?

Thanks,

Shawn

 

[Beekissed]

Healthy for hogs??? Fermented grain feeding all started with hogs!

Hogs have been eating just such foods since Aunt Netty barred the door...in other words, a very long age. As hogs and chickens are both monogastric animals and do not have multiple stomachs in which to ferment their grains before digestion occurs in the bowels, they benefit greatly by having it done for them before the actual eating. More nutrients are actually used from the feeds given, meaning less nutrients passing through the bowel undigested and onto the ground...money on the ground is not good biz.

If you pop over to the FF thread and start at the beginning it will tell you all about the fermentation times, how to do it with crumble and pelleted feeds and all the particulars about how to feed it.

If I remember right, I finished out 50+ meaty birds in 11 wks on $175 in layer mash,whole grains(fermented feeds) and free range. Feed savings? You bet! Tell me anyone else getting by that cheap on feeds for CX.

 

[aussie pete]

Hi Bee ,have a problem ,my australorp rooster, within two days lost all his saddle feathers & appeared very red around his vent ,inspection didn't reveil any active critters .but i suspect lice .australorp hen has some feather loss on her back but i considered it was over -mating,other light sussex hens & rooster have no signs dusted both australorps with wood ash .not crowded have a 17' x 6' coop for these two ,plus a 26'x10' run .they r free ranged every day except if i have to go to town , did have some wild crows in run the other day- any other ideas' cheers Pete

 

[Beekissed]

Could just be molting, Pete. If you walk up in my coop right now it looks like a multi-colored chicken exploded in there. Didn't hurt to dust them down with the wood ashes...keep an eye on the base of the feathers around the vent for any signs of lice eggs and especially give a look in that area at night when lice are most active...you can spread the feathers and see them crawling around if they have them.

From the amounts they have lost and in such a short time, I'm inclined to think molting instead of parasites.

Let us know how it all comes out?

 

[aussie pete]

thanks ,didn't think it was molt as we r just getting into spring here, did inspect both day & nite couldn't find any eggs or critters .will see in a few days & let u know

 

[rrrmamma]

I haven't been happy with the feathering on my girls. Some have bare areas around the top of their vents. Can't see any creepy crawlies on them. They have been dust bathing on the edge of the woods all summer while freeranging, but with the weather changing they won't have that opportunity. I put a large box of wood ashes in their coop this morning. When I went out tonight for a final check dust was flying. My barred rock and one of my reds were rolling and flapping and having a "spa day" in those ashes. I couldn't stop laughing or coughing with all the dust in the air. I have started feeded FF last week and they are loving it. I keep it in the house as I have no protected area for it near the coop so it is somewhat warm when I feed it. Will continue for a little longer and see how it works as winter comes on. Thanks so much for all the knowledge. We want to raise these chickens as naturally as possible. DH and I try to avoid chemicals and use natural remedies for us and all our animals.

 

[thedragonlady]

Quote:
Bee, and anybody else, Dr. Julie Helm is my state NPIP vet. Super gal, and a real chicken person. Anything she has written is worth reading, as she doesn't sugar coat anything. She was just here last week, and we are so lucky to have her!

 

[Beekissed]

thanks ,didn't think it was molt as we r just getting into spring here, did inspect both day & nite couldn't find any eggs or critters .will see in a few days & let u know

I completely forgot about your position on the globe, Pete. When do they normally molt in your neck of the woods?

 

[breezy]

I used DE because I dont have access to wood ash. Dont have a wood stove nor does anyone on my block so I will put an add on Freecycle and see if someone wants to donate to the cause. I will stop giving the birds the leftovers (that will make the dogs happy

) and just do the scratch and layer and I will fermant the scratch. I will switch over from straw to hay in the nest boxes. The twice a year cleaning of the walls and nest boxes will stop. Just to be clear the birds have access to the coop at all times in all weather and are only locked in it each night to protect from the local coons and even if I dont let them out of the chicken run they have 100 sq feet of sheltered dry pen for 9 birds .The coop itself is only 16 square feet but again they only sleep and lay there and I do have the smaller coop that will accomadate 2 birds. The birds never stay in the coop during the day even during extreme cold by their own choice. The silkies feed and go back to either the main coop or the smaller one during cold but the rest seem to prefer being outside even in rain and snow. I created a kind of dead air space in the run by tarping the north and west walls of the run leaving the south and east open to the light. The run only gets snow on the ground in there during extreme blizzard conditions and since I live in Colorado near Denver those bizzards arent an every winter event. In fact we never got snow again after the second week of January this past year.. The top of the run has a metal roof so rain and snow do not fall directly into the run. I do understand that the coop is really only big enough for 4 birds if they were shut up in it all the time but since they are only confined to it overnights do I still need to get rid of birds? If I do then I will. Besides freecycle where else could I look for a source of wood ash? Isnt that a strange question? Who knew that raising chickens in the burbs would be impeded by having a furnace instead of a wood stove?. Dang I wish I could move to a rural setting. My mom keeps telling me I cant turn city into country guess she was right lol.

Edited because I forgot to thank you for your help. appreciate your wisdom and will do the changes as suggested. Your awesome!

I can't say for sure about things unless I actually saw your land and setup but I can make a few suggestions that may be a turning point in their health.

First, it sounds like they may be a little overfed but I can't be sure because I don't know if you feed free choice or by the meal. All the cooking and preparation of foods isn't necessary for chickens, though I know a lot of people on the forum think that's the way to go. If you make any adjustments to your feeding regimen, I'd suggest moving towards just fermenting the layer feed and whole grains that you currently feed and feeding them once or twice a day until they are doing better, then maybe moving that to once a day.

The pumpkins are a good supplement in the middle of winter when they lack any good, fresh forage, so I'd let those ferment as well and feed them later on. Not daily...maybe weekly or bi-weekly if you have the pumpkins.

Bleaching any environment or equipment in the coop is just not something I ever recommend, nor dusting the whole place with powders of any kind. All that does is kill everything...unfortunately, it also kills all the beneficial bacteria, yeasts and other organisms that keep a healthy balance in their environment. Doubly unfortunate, the bad guys grow and populate that now empty slate much quicker than the good guys and then they rule once again. This necessitates repeated bleachings and poisonings and so the cycle goes round and round, where it stops nobody knows.

Same with DE...just kills all the goodies in the soil. Not a good thing to do..ever.

Start a deep litter going in your coop...I know you said you have pine shavings but deep litter is a little different than just having deep shavings in the coop that you keep raking out. Leave that poop and work it into the litter and keep building on that. Contrary to theories that deep litter is a hiding place for mites and lice and will promote their life, it is also a hiding place for those creatures that prey on their larvae. Yes, even parasites have parasites. Make a good home for the parasites of the parasites and you won't have a good home for the parasites. I hope that wasn't too confusing.

There is a good thread on this forum that discusses proper deep litter, so I won't go into that here but a good deep litter system is a healthy way to help chickens who need good bacteria in their lives, as the deep litter is just a petri dish for the growth of beneficial microorganism.

So...to recap, good fermented feed to populate their insides with good bacteria and deep litter to grow good bacteria in the coop environment. These are long term fixes that, when nurtured and developed, will keep your flock from getting these bad things instead of trying to treat for them once they have been gotten.

For fast relief of the current problems, place NuStock on those nits at the base of the feathers, on the skin of their face and ears, and dust these chickens thoroughly with wood ashes. Not DE. Wood ashes worked lovingly and deeply under the feathers and into the skin. Then set up a good dusting area of the same. You can even place the ashes in the nesting box.

Speaking of the nesting box...get rid of straw. Hay, yes, straw, no. Straw has lovely little tubes where bad boys like to hide and live until they can come out at night and bite someone. You can use hay or pine shavings for the nest boxes and even place a little wood ashes there.

If the coop is too small for them to get into and out of cold weather, this is something I would change. I assume CO has weather somewhat similar to where I live and though an open air coop system is nice for the ventilation, birds like to sleep somewhere a little more snug and out of the wind when cold weather blows. If not, they will be using all the nutrition in their feeds to keep warm instead of for health and growth. If your coop is too small for all your birds at once, this needs to change...either eliminate some of the birds or construct a bigger coop space.

If eliminating, I'd start with your Buff and the Silkies...eating but not producing. In these economic times, it just isn't feasible to keep supporting non-producers.

Bumble foot:



For your birds I'd be looking as nutrition as the cause of the bumble foot unless you have some pretty bad roosting options. Bad roosting won't cause the poor feathering, but the nutritional deficiencies will. So, for birds with bumble foot AND poor feathering, you might want to look at nutrition. All the feeds and varieties you are feeding may seem like a great thing but you can get too much of a good thing and also it prevents you from giving them enough of a good thing.

A well-balanced layer feed and just a few whole grains, coupled with free range, are pretty much all they need. Back off all the cooked foods and nutritional yeast, keep the shells and layer feeds. Ferment the feeds they have to give them some good probios in their guts. When adding proteins, keep in mind that they can only process so much before it has to be excreted and it is very hard on the renal function. Poor renal function can lead to poor skin and feathering, loss of weight, poor health. Older birds and those in poor health have a much harder time processing proteins, so this is doubly true for them. High protein diets are for high performance animals that are getting a lot of exercise, are being prepared for show, or for growing out CX if you don't care about their health while they are alive.

I know it's tempting to throw everything at the flock when you are desparate to help them, so dusting with DE, bleaching everything and powering up on the high pro diets seem like a powerful way to slam the door on bad things in the flock but, as you can testify, they do little to help in the long term. And everyone wants a healthy, shiny flock that doesn't need much tweaking, don't they?

One important thing to note. Once you have the flock back on track and they are all doing well...except a few...take a good look at those few and consider culling. When the bulk of your flock is healthy and stays that way on your husbandry methods but you always have a few that have thin shells, don't lay, have recurring health issues, those are the birds that will never be healthy no matter how long you try to make them so. At that time you might want to take a long, hard look at your goals for your flock and see if these flock members fit into that picture.

I hope you implement these suggestions and come back to give some feedback on your results so that others may learn too.