The supplemental light debate

[bobbi-j]

One thing I didn't make very clear is how much I think flexibility is key to keeping a flock.

5 years ago, what was right for me was one large coop and run. No lighting. I aged many of my layers out at the 18 month mark for increased production, that also kept me from needing to use light cause I always had fresh birds. Chickens were a hobby and I really didn't worry about the financial aspect.

Now, what's right for me is several coops/breeding pens, and some will be lit this winter for hatching purposes. I've also kept over more hens for breeding or broodiness, so I have more older ladies in the mix than before. I'm being a little more conscious of financial managemnt an am trying to get more bang for my buck so to speak.

In 5 more years, who knows? I may be running a small hatchery, I may be down to half a dozen layers simply for our personal use.

What I'm trying to say is, be flexible. Lighting was not right for me before, now it is. May or may not be in the future.

Just be safe when you do it. I shorted out our barn this spring with my lights for the coop

Agreed - flexibility is important. Especially as our needs for eggs, meat, breeders or whatever else changes. I have used lights, and I have not used lights - depends on the year. This year, I'm going into winter with pullets that are already laying, so I most likely won't.

 

[CountryGirl1120]

One thing I didn't make very clear is how much I think flexibility is key to keeping a flock.

5 years ago, what was right for me was one large coop and run. No lighting. I aged many of my layers out at the 18 month mark for increased production, that also kept me from needing to use light cause I always had fresh birds. Chickens were a hobby and I really didn't worry about the financial aspect.

Now, what's right for me is several coops/breeding pens, and some will be lit this winter for hatching purposes. I've also kept over more hens for breeding or broodiness, so I have more older ladies in the mix than before. I'm being a little more conscious of financial managemnt an am trying to get more bang for my buck so to speak.

In 5 more years, who knows? I may be running a small hatchery, I may be down to half a dozen layers simply for our personal use.

What I'm trying to say is, be flexible. Lighting was not right for me before, now it is. May or may not be in the future.

Just be safe when you do it. I shorted out our barn this spring with my lights for the coop

I understand that completely. Thank you for explaining further though. The whole point of this was me wanting to get the reasons why people either do or do not add the lighting without it turning into a whole huge war. I had someone yesterday make it seem like I was horrible for doing the lighting and trying to "squeeze" the eggs out of my girls while they were a saint for letting nature take its course. It was one of those things for me that realized how nasty a person can get when you dont share their opinion. But I do agree with you that everyone should be open and willing to change as their needs change if they do.

I am always safe with them. Part of the reason the ducks wont get supplemental lighting. Their house is too small to add extra light to. Even though I have a Ancona pair I am hoping to hatch some eggs from next year. I keep hoping for a broody hen so I can do it that way instead of an incubator. The incubator process scares me a bit. But my dad helps me out with all the lighting so I know everything is hooked up correctly and not going to cause problems anywhere. Going on the third year with lights and so far so good.

 

[centrarchid]

My table-egg production comes from three groups / flocks of a dual purpose heritage breed (American Dominique) where I want longevity in a setting that is similar to what the breed was developed in. Hens are three years old before I collect hatching eggs from them, Have pushed them before using supplemental light which does shorten lifespan. Bigger problem is it is harder for me to keep hens in good feather, especially when it is cold which gets into other complications when trying to keep birds in lay.

 

[CountryGirl1120]

My table-egg production comes from three groups / flocks of a dual purpose heritage breed (American Dominique) where I want longevity in a setting that is similar to what the breed was developed in. Hens are three years old before I collect hatching eggs from them, Have pushed them before using supplemental light which does shorten lifespan. Bigger problem is it is harder for me to keep hens in good feather, especially when it is cold which gets into other complications when trying to keep birds in lay.

Hens in good feather? Can you elaborate more on that?

How much in your findings does it shorten lifespan?

 

[lazy gardener]

On the way to work. Will revisit this interesting thread later. Short answer Yes. And it's an individual decision, should not be associated with a guilt trip one way or an other.

 

[CountryGirl1120]

On the way to work. Will revisit this interesting thread later. Short answer Yes. And it's an individual decision, should not be associated with a guilt trip one way or an other.

Cant wait to get the longer answer from you later! I know it should not be associated with a guilt trip. Yesterday just showed me how some people truly do not respect the decisions and opinions of others no matter what they may actually say. The person in question ended their statement to each their own like they didnt care but if you truly believe that why make it seem like its horrible in the first place?

I really like learning all the reasons why people either choose or do not choose to use lighting. Some I never thought of. Like breeding for instance. I never thought that would matter.

On that subject if someone who does it wouldnt mind answering, does hatching eggs that are laid later make a difference?

 

[centrarchid]

Hens in good feather?  Can you elaborate more on that?

How much in your findings does it shorten lifespan?

Keep some hens in lay for prolonged period under stressful conditions. Compare condition of feathering to same birds immediately after completion of molt. The compare those stressed birds to those kept free-range where most of their nutrition is acquired by foraging and no supplemental lighting is employed.


I have not done proper trials with statistics to explore longevity. I does appear with my long lived breed (American Games) that can normally live for a decade if not lost depredation have a hard time living to 5 years when pushed for egg production. Pushed means about 120 to 180 eggs per year which can be realized for the first three years or so with hens greater than five having a hard time producing 60 eggs while near the end a hen might give a clutch or two of only eggs per year. Really old hens might give 2 or 3 eggs per clutch. When you do life time performance, my American Games will not be far from what the best layer strains can do, it is the average number of eggs per day that differs.

 

[aart]

I used winter lighting the first 3 winters, with varying application schedules and varying results,
for the same reasons as you - to keep the eggs coming all winter...and got the same shaming.
Pffft...everyone has an opinion, many differ, some are correct, some are off the wall illogical
Last year started lights earlier than ever (mid july) and was very careful ramping up smoothly.
Most my 18 months olds molted and didn't lay for a couple months anyway.
Year before some molted over winter, and some laid all winter but molted in spring......so deficit of eggs no matter.

It's hard to fool mother nature and with live animals nothing is written in stone.
I do think it's good for them to molt and have a 'rest'.

This year I'm not going to use lights, just to see what happens.
I will have 10 pullets that just started laying a couple weeks ago and four or five 18 month olds and maybe one 30 month old.
We shall see what we shall see

 

[CountryGirl1120]

Keep some hens in lay for prolonged period under stressful conditions. Compare condition of feathering to same birds immediately after completion of molt. The compare those stressed birds to those kept free-range where most of their nutrition is acquired by foraging and no supplemental lighting is employed.


I have not done proper trials with statistics to explore longevity. I does appear with my long lived breed (American Games) that can normally live for a decade if not lost depredation have a hard time living to 5 years when pushed for egg production. Pushed means about 120 to 180 eggs per year which can be realized for the first three years or so with hens greater than five having a hard time producing 60 eggs while near the end a hen might give a clutch or two of only eggs per year. Really old hens might give 2 or 3 eggs per clutch. When you do life time performance, my American Games will not be far from what the best layer strains can do, it is the average number of eggs per day that differs.

Thank you so much for the information! I really like learning all this stuff that I never considered. I heard chickens where the most productive in their first 2 years so I myself get new birds every 2 years. Not to mention with predator loss I really needed them this year anyways. I was down to 5 from 10 in 2 years and with 7 people or more to feed and me an avid baker it was needed. If you ever do proper trials I would be interested in the findings.

I used winter lighting the first 3 winters, with varying application schedules and varying results,
for the same reasons as you - to keep the eggs coming all winter...and got the same shaming.
Pffft...everyone has an opinion, many differ, some are correct, some are off the wall illogical
Last year started lights earlier than ever (mid july) and was very careful ramping up smoothly.
Most my 18 months olds molted and didn't lay for a couple months anyway.
Year before some molted over winter, and some laid all winter but molted in spring......so deficit of eggs no matter.

It's hard to fool mother nature and with live animals nothing is written in stone.
I do think it's good for them to molt and have a 'rest'.

This year I'm not going to use lights, just to see what happens.
I will have 10 pullets that just started laying a couple weeks ago and four or five 18 month olds and maybe one 30 month old.
We shall see what we shall see

Let me know how that works for you. Yes everyone will have there own opinion and I like to hear everyones. What I dont like is trying to make someone seem like they are a bad person for not having the same opinion.

Chicken molting. Ugh. I always think something got a bird when I see the feathers everywhere. And I view the molt for them as a rest. I never use feather fixer or up their protein during that to try to make the feathers come back faster. Just let it happen on its own. Usually during this time I dont sell any extra eggs I have I keep all the goodness I get for myself.

I have some 2 year olds and some 6 month pullets and even though I probably dont need the light with the pullets I plan on providing it anyways to help the 2 year olds out. Theres 3 that are safe from the crock pot this year. The other 2 not so much.

Has anyone noticed a difference in how long breeds produce eggs when comparing hatchery to breeder quality?

 

[aart]

Has anyone noticed a difference in how long breeds produce eggs when comparing hatchery to breeder quality?

That's a totally different discussion with it's own many variables.
One huge variable is that many 'breeders' are just hatching out of hatchery stock and selling them.