The Supreme Court's Gun Ruling This Week - Not A Debate

[Oblio13]

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I don't think anyone has denigrated the police at all - only pointed out that they can't be everywhere all the time. Cops very, very rarely show up at the scene of an active shooting. It's a cliche, but it's a cliche because it's true:

"When seconds count, the police are minutes away."

 

[ivan3]

The opinion was split 5-4 (should be a concern regarding who gets to make future appointments to the court - just a thought).

Link to SCOTUS ruling:

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

 

[PurpleChicken]

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Good link. It's not as simple as the media likes to portray it as. I got to page 10
and couldn't take anymore.

 

[Oakland_Ranchero]

I have a mixed opinion when it comes to gun ownership and possession I completely agree that it is amongst our government given right as a free people to own guns and use them to protect our self, family and home. I live in a high crime area. In 2007 Oakland has 127 homicides in which all but 22 were shootings. I don't attribute this to the fact that guns are available but to the fact that not enough is done in our communities to address crime.

I have worked in human, labor and community rights for nearly a decade now and have worked in areas like Brazil, Columbia, Ecuador and El Salvador (not to mention Detroit, NYC, South Central LA, Little Rock, New Orleans) and have seen what happens when people aren't allowed to own guns. I have also seen the destructive power of gun ownership and when guerrillas meet non appreciative villages. In no way am I saying that we have the same problem in our country but we have a true fight going on within out nation that will not be solved by banning guns or giving more guns to individuals. Very true that guns do no kill people but that people kill people but to really understand this we must look into what causes the murder in our society. Here in Oakland, murders are caused by one person or group of people defending their property or family. It may be that their property is largely comprised of drugs and their livelihood is to sell them but where do we draw the line? Education is key especially in our under privileged neighborhoods and cities. I understand that many of you live outside of main cities and therefore are not always (although sometimes) affected by what happens in our inner cities but this is something that should be a national concern.

In 2005, 11,346 murders were committed in the US using guns. In the same year, 5346 murders were committed using all other known ways. That's a pretty big gap. Drug related murders amount to the highest in our nation. There was a sharp increase in the trend of handgun related murders in the late 80's and early 90's during the development of crack cocaine markets. Although this increase has somewhat dropped the trend of drug related murders being the highest is still prevalent. Our youth are seeking drugs in inner cities where they are readily available and our youth are committing crimes against each other. Unfortunately, crimes related to crack cocaine, which are more prevalent in lower income areas of color, have a greater punishment than crimes related to powdered cocaine, which are more prevalent in more affluent, white communities.

These are just a few facts that I wanted to throw out from my experiences. I feel that we have a bigger issue to fight than trying to ban guns. Anyone, please feel free to check my numbers or facts. You can log onto the FBI's or Bureau of Justice's website to find these numbers.

It is not enough that we, as Americans, demand the right to own guns but that we, as Americans, demand that all rights of our great nation be upheld for all people.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[summerwindsfarm]

Quote:
I don't think anyone has denigrated the police at all - only pointed out that they can't be everywhere all the time. Cops very, very rarely show up at the scene of an active shooting. It's a cliche, but it's a cliche because it's true:

"When seconds count, the police are minutes away."

You misquoted this..im not the one that said this. That is what purplechicken wrote.

And i agree with you. While the majority of our police are terrific..they are spread far too thin for us to be able to depend on them when we need them in a hurry.

 

[chickiebaby]

Today's headline: Once again this year, more than half of the deaths by firearm in the United States of America were SUICIDES.

Yes, folks, your chances of losing someone you love go up exponentially if that person has access to a gun.

Note also that your chances of dying in any given violent crime RISE if YOU have a firearm present.

The link:

http://www.physorg.com/news134110274.html

Those of you who've posted over and over replying to anyone who disagrees in the slightest, I hope you will take some time to read the attached linked article, and let a few new voices into this interesting discussion BEFORE you jump all over it immediately.

While I do think this thread has been civil, I only posted once, and I can't help but feel that the few times I've noticed someone disagree in the slightest, the immediate shout downs, almost exclusively from a few otherwise delightful chicken-lovers out there, have shut them right up. I'd love to hear what more people think. Let's all give them time to say so.

And, no, I don't want to pry your darned gun from your cold dead hands; I just want you to stay alive.

 

[Oblio13]

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Do you have a link to that info? I'm perusing the FBI crime data for 2005, and they state 14,860 total homicides for 2005. I can't find where they're broken down by weapon type, but it's interesting to note that the most "popular" circumstances are: Robbery, juvenile gang killings and narcotics, in that order.

 

[Oblio13]

Quote:
I don't think anyone has denigrated the police at all - only pointed out that they can't be everywhere all the time. Cops very, very rarely show up at the scene of an active shooting. It's a cliche, but it's a cliche because it's true:

"When seconds count, the police are minutes away."

You misquoted this..im not the one that said this. That is what purplechicken wrote.

And i agree with you. While the majority of our police are terrific..they are spread far too thin for us to be able to depend on them when we need them in a hurry.

Oops.

 

[Oakland_Ranchero]

Quote:
Do you have a link to that info? I'm perusing the FBI crime data for 2005, and they state 14,860 total homicides for 2005. I can't find where they're broken down by weapon type, but it's interesting to note that the most "popular" circumstances are: Robbery, juvenile gang killings and narcotics, in that order.

Homicide Trends in the US

 

[summerwindsfarm]

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But in this case arent they protecting their posessions, most of the time, from other gang members? So they are basically shooting each other with an occasional innocent bystander or policeman getting in the line of fire?

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I dont think there is anywhere you can live in the US where you are insulated from gangs or drugs. Most meth labs are in the country. As the components for making meth get harder to come by its being manufactured in Mexico and brought up into the US. Theres a lot of drug trafficing that goes on in small towns all along the major US interstate highways. And woe to the person that stubbles onto either a meth lab or a major drug deal..they arent likely to walk away from it alive..armed or not.

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Thats only because guns are so convenient. Take away guns and they will find another way to kill each other.

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And there in lies your problem. Its way past time that we declared a *real* war on drugs. And we can start by *truely* closing our border with Mexico. And then we need to put drug dealers away for a whole lot longer..and while we're in the process lets at least attempt to rehab some of those arrested for possession before they become drug dealers..if they arent already.

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Drugs are not just an inner city problem..not any more..and especially not meth. I speak from personal experience. My son grew up white and middle class in a small oklahoma town. Played sports, did well in school, had plans for college. Became addicted to meth (and took at least 6 of his friends along with him for the ride) at 16 because someone told him that he could use a little meth and not have to sleep. That left more time for work, girls and school sigh. One of his friends started using to lose weight for her junior prom. She went from a straight a student to dropping out before she graduated. By 19 he was FINALLY in prison for 5 felony counts of possession with the intent to distribute. He did 18 months. A slap on the hand for a kid who was using, cooking, and selling. Hes been out a year and a half now and fortunately hasnt went back to selling. He still struggles with his addiction and the disabilities (seizures and memory loss) caused by it. And yes i prayed every night that he would go to prison before he killed someone, or himself, or was killed by someone. One of his best friends was jacked and shot to death on a drug deliver he was supposed to make..that kept him clean for all of three weeks sigh.

I watched how the drugs changed my sons entire personality. He went from a kind gentle kid who took in every stray animal that came along to fiend who could only think about meth. He would not have cared for one second that he was packing an illegal gun..just as he didnt care that he was packing thousands of dollars worth of illegal drugs. And he was one of thousands of kids out there...thousands that are still out there..and they sure arent all kids either. Do we really want to be unprotected against them? I dont. And i can guarantee you that our justice system is NOT doing anything to protect us..or these kids.

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I sure agree with that.