The Welsummer Thread!!!!

[microchick]

Hybrid Vigor

Precisely. I've got young 13 week old Welsummer Buff O crosses maturing right now. Two are cockerels, one is a pullet. What I'm hoping to see with the young pullet is a smaller egg, darker than the current Buff O egg. My Welly hens are not big girls but they lay BIG eggs. It concerns me what laying those big eggs is doing to their repro systems.

I'm hoping that the cockerels will be slightly more mellow than the Welsummer roosters that we have have proven to be. The two I have are real stinkers and living on borrowed time if they don't settle down. I'm hoping the two cross cockerels are more like their Buff O dad.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Precisely. I've got young 13 week old Welsummer Buff O crosses maturing right now. Two are cockerels, one is a pullet. What I'm hoping to see with the young pullet is a smaller egg, darker than the current Buff O egg. My Welly hens are not big girls but they lay BIG eggs. It concerns me what laying those big eggs is doing to their repro systems.

I'm hoping that the cockerels will be slightly more mellow than the Welsummer roosters that we have have proven to be. The two I have are real stinkers and living on borrowed time if they don't settle down. I'm hoping the two cross cockerels are more like their Buff O dad.

Sounds like a solid plan...post some images. I'd personally like to see what a Welsumer/Buff Orpington looks like.

And keep us up to date as your project unfolds...

 

[microchick]

I'll put it on the to do list for tomorrow. I tried last night to get some pictures of them but the little boogers move around so much that all I get is a blur of tail feathers on the way by.

 

[RanchRichey]

Precisely. I've got young 13 week old Welsummer Buff O crosses maturing right now. Two are cockerels, one is a pullet. What I'm hoping to see with the young pullet is a smaller egg, darker than the current Buff O egg. My Welly hens are not big girls but they lay BIG eggs. It concerns me what laying those big eggs is doing to their repro systems.

I'm hoping that the cockerels will be slightly more mellow than the Welsummer roosters that we have have proven to be. The two I have are real stinkers and living on borrowed time if they don't settle down. I'm hoping the two cross cockerels are more like their Buff O dad.

I posted a bit ago. We recently found out that our supposed Welsummers are likely cross breeds.
Maybe a RIR or production red crosses with a Wellie.
Hoping this makes for better producing but still dark eggs???
We will have to wait and see, but boy are they pretty

 

[Rock Home Isle]

My question is how come some hens have much larger combs and wattles than others? I have two hens and this is the case. What do you think of them by the way?

Do you get two eggs per day?

Or do you get one egg on most days and occasionally get two eggs?

My guess would be mostly one egg per day, and occasionally two. Going on these images, and no physical examination, the bird in the top image is going to be your most productive bird.

 

[dheltzel]

Hybrid Vigor

Yes. Hybrid vigor (geneticists call it heterozygosity - pretty sure I spelled that wrong) is effectively undoing the effects of inbreeding. Inbreeding can happen intentionally (usually called line breeding because "inbreeding" has a bad connotation) or just the result of a small founding population. It is not always detrimental, as evidenced by show breeders who inbreed as a matter of course, but cull effectively and heavily to eliminate deleterious genes. But undoing all that inbreeding with a hybridization cross is almost sure to cause a lot of good things, along with the loss to future progeny of some good things, so as an "end game" hybrids are almost always a productivity win, but if trying to add a specific gene to an existing line, it can be costly because of the undesirable genes that may come along and be hard to eliminate. Breeders can spend years "cleaning up" after a cross they make as a "project". It is fun, making something new, but can be frustrating, especially if your initial cross was not well considered. I had the luxury of working off a breeding plan that was the original project's plan, and knew what to expect at each step of the way. The results exceeded my expectations and I'm really excited about the flock I have now.

 

[chickensfinally]

Early present
Thinking my wellie eggs were duds. I got two little bantams yesterday. Will double check wellie eggs tonight in the dark and see if I missed anything. May have to try again once I get my shed made over and have more space.

Eggtopsies show 2 didn't develop at all, 1 started but quit.

Awww, I'm sorry your Wellie eggs were duds! Cute banties though! How'd mom take to them?

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Yes. Hybrid vigor (geneticists call it heterozygosity - pretty sure I spelled that wrong) is effectively undoing the effects of inbreeding. Inbreeding can happen intentionally (usually called line breeding because "inbreeding" has a bad connotation) or just the result of a small founding population. It is not always detrimental, as evidenced by show breeders who inbreed as a matter of course, but cull effectively and heavily to eliminate deleterious genes. But undoing all that inbreeding with a hybridization cross is almost sure to cause a lot of good things, along with the loss to future progeny of some good things, so as an "end game" hybrids are almost always a productivity win, but if trying to add a specific gene to an existing line, it can be costly because of the undesirable genes that may come along and be hard to eliminate. Breeders can spend years "cleaning up" after a cross they make as a "project". It is fun, making something new, but can be frustrating, especially if your initial cross was not well considered. I had the luxury of working off a breeding plan that was the original project's plan, and knew what to expect at each step of the way. The results exceeded my expectations and I'm really excited about the flock I have now.

Yes you are correct. Most people are unfamiliar with the term Heterozygosity (according to spell check we are both correct), so I defaulted to the more familiar...Hybrid Vigor.

Once the initial cross is made, the F1 generation shouldl be very uniform, unless one or both of the sides of the initial cross were poorly chosen. Crossing the best of both should promote a very uniform F1 generation. Should the breeder then back cross to the original line, over time the breeder can clean things up and gradually bring their original line back...well for the most part traits can be brought back as long as key members of the original line are available.

The key to maintaining a line is having a plan, knowledge of what you are doing, clearly defined goals, and maintaining large enough populations to avoid inbreeding, and better promote line breeding and strain maintenance.

If members of the F1 are crossed with each other...yeah, that's starting over and going in an entirely new direction; scrapping most or all of what came before....Breeder's Choice Award.

What intrigues me is hearing more about your project. If it is something that you can share, that would be interesting, exciting and much more mentally stimulating than the usual, "What breed is my 2 week old chick?", type of conversation. Breeding for a purpose with clear set goals, documenting progress and learning from failures...awesome!!!

Sharing knowledge with a person that posses initimate "in the trenches" experiences is always a benefit.

I'm impressed, you have my attention.

 

[dheltzel]

Yes you are correct. Most people are unfamiliar with the term Heterozygosity (according to spell check we are both correct), so I defaulted to the more familiar...Hybrid Vigor.

Once the initial cross is made, the F1 generation shouldl be very uniform, unless one or both of the sides of the initial cross were poorly chosen. Crossing the best of both should promote a very uniform F1 generation. Should the breeder then back cross to the original line, over time the breeder can clean things up and gradually bring their original line back...well for the most part traits can be brought back as long as key members of the original line are available.

The key to maintaining a line is having a plan, knowledge of what you are doing, clearly defined goals, and maintaining large enough populations to avoid inbreeding, and better promote line breeding and strain maintenance.

If members of the F1 are crossed with each other...yeah, that's starting over and going in an entirely new direction; scrapping most or all of what came before....Breeder's Choice Award.

What intrigues me is hearing more about your project. If it is something that you can share, that would be interesting, exciting and much more mentally stimulating than the usual, "What breed is my 2 week old chick?", type of conversation. Breeding for a purpose with clear set goals, documenting progress and learning from failures...awesome!!!

Sharing knowledge with a person that posses initimate "in the trenches" experiences is always a benefit.

I'm impressed, you have my attention.

I spent a while learning how the autosexing genetics work and found a lot of info about turning my favorite breed, the Welsummers, into an autosexing Welbar. Really, a Welbar is just a Crele Welsummer. There are Silver Duckwing Welsummers, but when the Crele were created they were given the name Welbar, I assume to ride the wave of popularity around autosexing "*bar" breeds.
This is a fantastic site to learn about the history and the current status in the UK: http://www.harislau.info/welbars
I used the breeding chart on that page to create them, and it also shows how to outcross back to Welsummers to enhance the genepool. Of all the autosexing breeds that I am aware of, only Welbars have this property of being easily outcrossed to their founding breed, you can't do this with Legbars, Rhodebars, or Bielefelders, but it's trivial with Welbars. A Welbar cockerel over any Welsummer pullet will produce 100% female Welbars. Cull any male chicks, put their father over them and you have a 100% autosexing Welbar flock in a single generation.

 

[katatonic123]

She is doing well with them. Had them out in the sun most of the day today. I was working outside so I got lots of sneak peeks.

Awww, I'm sorry your Wellie eggs were duds!  Cute banties though! How'd mom take to them?