They want to make it ALL illegal. What do you think of Senate Bill 510

[JoAnn_WI_4-H_Mom]

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Wow.

yep wow x2. I find this alarming, (and not in a supportive way in case there's any doubt.)

I was going to reply to it but found there was nothing to say to such a statement of belief. My experience must be very different from yours.

I can only repeat that the township, county, state and national officials I have dealt with have all seemed to be trying to make it possible for people to live together. I have never met an official who WANTED to make the population sick and let them die. In all cases there seemed to be honest concern when condemning of property for new roads, or dealing with revocation of licenses due to neighborhood complaints about a business. Even a lot of sadness from the police when removing a pet rooster from a city residence where it was not allowed.

Inspection officials in our area seem to be pretty rational. When a local farmer was hoodwinked by a farmer from Ohio and sold a herd of cattle infected with TB, the officials were very careful about what restrictions they put on this and neighboring herds to keep the disease from spreading farther. They did not just come in and destroy this and all neighboring herds that might have been in contact over the fence (as the law allows in "extreme" cases, one pf those interpretable clauses we are all concerned about). They simply quarantined the herds so no animals could be sold, slaughtered only proven infected animals and allowed the sale of milk as it has been proven TB does not spread that way. While the local farmers are unhappy about the situation, there was good communication between officials and farmers and I believe everyone will comply to get this situation resolved. They will none of them go bankrupt from this unfortunate happening. When everyone tests clean for a period of time, the farmers will be allowed to sell animals again.

Frankly, this is a case where a greedy individual thinking he found a great price on a herd of cattle skipped some regulated steps, and a greedy individual who wanted to sell his infected herd so he created all the necessary inspection paperwork on his home computer, have seriously endangered the livelyhood of their neighbors and potentially the major industry of the region.

My point being as stated before, I don't fear the regulation so much as the greed, ignorance and malice of individuals in power.

And each of us in our individual lives have the power to affect our neighbors by acting without thinking. It would have been better in this situation if the regulations had been followed by the individuals who chose to ignore them.

 

[PortageGirl]

Yep, I am seeing a lot of confusion of different laws in some of these hysterical and fearful posts. Some laws get passed that need to be revised or even repealed, and if so, go to work to figure out the details of that, but get the facts right. My perception of the governments and laws on a local, state, or federal end of things is very different from much of the fear-mongering being espoused here. I'm sure there are people in compounds in Idaho (sorry Idahoans, I know it's a stereotype, but a little true.) who agree with some of you, but I'm still happy to live here.

 

[Katy]

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Everytime I come back to one of these type threads all I can think is..... "THE SKY IS FALLING......THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[JoAnn_WI_4-H_Mom]

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It is pretty nice, isn't it?

 

[noodleroo]

I can agree that most of our experiences with LOCAL inspectors and ordinances are usually not a problem. Local authorities are our friends and neighbors, just like our local elected officials. The problem is the FEDERAL government employees and the regulations that they enforce. Very different from locals. They are not our friends and neighbors; have you ever dealt with customs officials or border officials? I assure you, they have SOOOOOOOOOO much power to delay you or get you on your way, depending on how they feel that day. I'm not talking about the 'do the right thing' attitude of any given individual; I'm talking about the power they are given by law-law just like the broad reaching wording of SB 510. I don't like the power given the FDA by this bill.

With that said, I don't believe that this will be an issue in this congressional session. Too many things have gone wrong with this bill, and, there are bigger fish to fry before Jan. 1, 2011 for the federal lawmakers...

 

[mons02035]

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He is refering to liberty as the opposite of slavery. In other words, the further from liberty you go, the closer to slavery you get. As for security, Ben means that as personal responsibilty.

I find it a bit arrogant that you or anyone else can argue the wisdom of any of our founders. What they created changed the world. Changed our lives and millions of others. They did something that had and has never been before in the history of man. And they proved that it works. The first 100 years of this country is amazing. The second 121 years was amazing as well but you can start to see the errosion of our liberties and the results of it throughout the decades since.

I am a libertarian at heart, so understand the "fine line" of one persons liberty crossing over into another persons. That is why laws have to exist. Not regulations and oppressive laws. Laws that say that if you damage my property or my person that I am entitled to compensation for your doings. Laws that allow contracts to be upheld. Laws that protect my property from being taken away. NOT laws that say I can't have table salt or smoke or eat McDonalds because they may raise health insurance. In my world, if a person chooses to do those things, than insurance shouldn't cover him if that insurance company does not want to. Or regulations that strangle any small or new company from ever forming. Most regulations are created because of companies lobbying congress, why do they lobby congress to put regulations on them? Because the big companies can afford the changes and they know that small or new companies can not. Hence killing any compitition.

So, in my opinion. There is no such thing as giving up liberty for a balanced society. In fact, your belief will actually cause a very unbalanced society.

**EDIT**

I also want to answer your couple questions. As for this poisoned food thing you keep throwing out there. If McDonalds sold poisoned hamburgers and fries, would they be the largest fast food company in the world? Or would people have stopped buyin their poisoned food, putting them out of business years ago? Companies do not intentionally sell tainted food, despite what you think. It's kind of bad for business.

As for my liberties. First off this bill is just a foot in the door so to speak. They start here and then over the next 10 years or so they will slowly grow the reach of this bill. As different people step into the FDA or USDA chief roles, they will changed the way the regs are read and it will eventually come down to affecting me, the gardener. Wether it be restrictions on what I can grow, or restrictions on the companies that sell me my seeds and fertilizer making it difficult for me to have a garden. It also kills my liberty if I someday choose to expand my hobby into a business. I could never come up with all the capital to get through all the regulatory requirements and red tape to even start a business.

 

[noodleroo]

Well, I may have spoken too soon. Here's a link that makes me think this bill isn't dead yet:
https://secure3.convio.net/aahf/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=643
Here's another little article from 3 days ago:
http://www.anh-usa.org/who’s-trying...anic-and-family-farms-big-food-on-the-attack/

 

[kcfuerst]

How to capture wild pigs...

First you set out corn, the wild pigs come and see what's there. They are hungry yet skeptical of the food. After a while, they start to eat. when they are done and gone, you lay out more corn and place one side of a pen near the corn. The wild pigs will come back, see the corn and the fence...this new item now has them a little more concerned than before yet they like the fact of free food so eat. After they eat and leave, you place more corn and another side of pen in place. Again the wild pigs will come back, see the corn and more of the fence...and their fear starts to dwindle. They eat the corn and leave. Do this til you have all sides of the pen in place except the last one. Then when you have the corn in place, you wait until the pigs return for their free meal and then place the last piece of the pen in place. Now you have them corralled and they are complacent with their free food and no freedom...

This is how our GOVERNMENT treats us. I do not trust them as far as I could toss my toilet. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

Over the last ten to fifteen years I have seen a strange thing occur in the belief system of American citizens. People began to fight for the rights of business to do business regardless of whether or not that business did anything wrong.

Would people stop eating food that was poisoned? Of course they would - if they knew it was poison. If they could see the effect of the poison right away. If they could clearly - and easily - connect the impact of the poison to that particular food.

Do most of you realize that Ben and his buddies did not like corporations? Those who even knew of them then, saw them as they were used then, as temporary groups put together to complete one project and then disband. When the concept of corporations expanded it became dangerous and something else entirely.

People talk about free food and penning hogs should think about the fact that corporations have expanded their hold and their "rights" way farther than any government has. I know some one will say but corporations cannot take away your rights. Yes, they can - and do. Often. Try fighting one in court. Talk to anyone who has taken on Monsanto. Talk to the dozens of businesses that lost against the bigger corporations when they moved into town coerced local government to give them tax breaks and then closed down local business.

Why are so many conflating individual rights by fighting bills that will have more of a curtailment impact on corporations than individuals or small businesses? Because they are spending huge money to convince you of that.

It is still hogs giving up their freedom while they defend the right of the feed corn industry to pen them up.

 

[ncarper]

Why are so many conflating individual rights by fighting bills that will have more of a curtailment impact on corporations than individuals or small businesses? Because they are spending huge money to convince you of that.

It's the corporations and big businesses that have the most to gain from this bill. The small businesses won't be able to afford the new fees associated with all the new requirements. This will force may small businesses to close, and thereby give an even greater market share to the large corporate factory farms. There is a reason why most large Corporate type Farms support this bill and most small farms, organic producers and organizations oppose this bill. This bill is not about food safety, but about giving greater market share to Big Business and more controll to the Federal government.​