This is what a balanced layer feed with no treats delivers

[tripletfeb]

If I didn’t have dogs inside I’m pretty sure I would be this one’s human servant and he would be king of the castle. Usually I am fine with giving away the kittens, but this one I am having trouble parting with. He is also massive compared to his other litter mates (even the other boys) so I might just have to keep him
View attachment 3854778

Ok, I hate cats. But this one has a really sweet face. He's a keeper

 

[Shadrach]

Rather sad in my opinion when a person with extensive experience in alternative feeds and a passion for the subject gets called a Troll by people who it seems know very little about the subject.

 

[Perris]

Perris is pretty firmly in the exclusively free range camp. Perhaps free range with supplementation of natural foods to credit Perris' position re "treats"...

You misrepresent me.

Anyone who bothers to read 'Wholesome homemade feed 2' will find the final paragraph says "because the ex-dom lived in confinement for almost a year (and would still be there now had I not ended his life), I am confident that, in order to work, this feed does not need to be paired with diverse and extensive forage (though that is, I am equally sure, hugely beneficial). All he had access to was the grass and weeds that grew in the lawn in his pen. He had no signs of any nutrient deficiency, despite being almost completely reliant on the homemade feed I supplied."

The original article, linked at the top of the 2nd year update, explains in detail what I feed, how much it costs, and how easy it is. Exaggerating the expertise required to feed chickens well benefits only feed companies and self-professed experts / influencers.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

You misrepresent me.

Anyone who bothers to read 'Wholesome homemade feed 2' will find the final paragraph says "because the ex-dom lived in confinement for almost a year (and would still be there now had I not ended his life), I am confident that, in order to work, this feed does not need to be paired with diverse and extensive forage (though that is, I am equally sure, hugely beneficial). All he had access to was the grass and weeds that grew in the lawn in his pen. He had no signs of any nutrient deficiency, despite being almost completely reliant on the homemade feed I supplied."

The original article, linked at the top of the 2nd year update, explains in detail what I feed, how much it costs, and how easy it is. Exaggerating the expertise required to feed chickens well benefits only feed companies and self-professed experts / influencers.

Appreciate the correction - certain of your other posts led me to believe otherwise. Very best.

 

[Kenya Mwangi]

Hello @Perris I see that your thread got stolen, but did that chicken get commercial feed uses DL-Methionine? Could it be a problem too?

For other some other people: I am not writing a peer reviewed research paper for ScienceDirect this is backyardchickens.com for people that are interested in what I say they can look it up. Just because I don't prove it here with scientific studies doesn't mean it is worthless information. After saying that, here is what deepai.org says to some dl-methionine questions. DL-Methionine is in almost all commercial feeds.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Hello @Perris I see that your thread got stolen, but did that chicken get commercial feed uses DL-Methionine? Could it be a problem too?

Worth reading. (Sources at the bottom)

You know what IS bad for chickens? Not enough Methionine (of whatever source).

PLEASE< PLEASE< PLEASE note that the amounts of DL-Methionine found in legally manufactured poultry feeds are not huge - literally a couple pounds per ton. We aren't talking about buying supplements of horse powder off of Chewy or human unregulated dietary supplements and feeding them to your birds. Nor should we be concerned about potential drug interactions with Warfarin and the like...

The dosage is still the poison.

Also true of Sodium, Water, Calcium, Potassium, Chlorine, Selenium, and dang near every other mineral and heavy metal needed in trace amounts to maintain life.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Note also that, unlike Humans, chickens are capable of making reasonable efficient use of D-Methionine, particularly when they are young (and relatively high levels of Met are most important).

See here.
See also (comparison of DL-Met to L-Met Meta-study with links to individual research)

 

[Shadrach]

Worth reading. (Sources at the bottom)

You know what IS bad for chickens? Not enough Methionine (of whatever source).

PLEASE< PLEASE< PLEASE note that the amounts of DL-Methionine found in legally manufactured poultry feeds are not huge - literally a couple pounds per ton. We aren't talking about buying supplements of horse powder off of Chewy or human unregulated dietary supplements and feeding them to your birds. Nor should we be concerned about potential drug interactions with Warfarin and the like...

The dosage is still the poison.

Also true of Sodium, Water, Calcium, Potassium, Chlorine, Selenium, and dang near every other mineral and heavy metal needed in trace amounts to maintain life.

At a meeting many years ago, one of my colleagues asked the meeting what the best growth rate for the company was; the answer is of course, what the environment will support.
Optimal growth rates for broiler chickens probably isn't the optimal for ranging medium low quantity laying hens.

I can't find any fault in the arguement that the diet should suit the chicken, and whenever practicable be of an unprocessed nature.

Right, I'll get back to my sub optimal diet. I'll try harder to eat even more fruit and vegetables, read the nutrition labels more carefully with a chemical dictionary at hand. It's the sugars at the moment, I've got a raging sweet tooth. I promise I won't go and tell the fat lady taking up two seats on the bus she's fat because she's eating a sub optimal diet and I wont tell any more vegans they're going to die soon.

 

[Kenya Mwangi]

Worth reading. (Sources at the bottom)

You know what IS bad for chickens? Not enough Methionine (of whatever source).

PLEASE< PLEASE< PLEASE note that the amounts of DL-Methionine found in legally manufactured poultry feeds are not huge - literally a couple pounds per ton. We aren't talking about buying supplements of horse powder off of Chewy or human unregulated dietary supplements and feeding them to your birds. Nor should we be concerned about potential drug interactions with Warfarin and the like...

The dosage is still the poison.

Also true of Sodium, Water, Calcium, Potassium, Chlorine, Selenium, and dang near every other mineral and heavy metal needed in trace amounts to maintain life.

Hello I read your article. Thank you for the link I like information. A couple things I noticed is that this is mainly for meat and broiler birds and production layers. I think I will continue to look for the diet that is for the average chicken that is not required to lay more than normal or grow big muscles. Like the diet for a thin healthy person instead of the athlete. It said in nature poultry are omnivores, but in commercial they are fed vegetarian. I am looking for in nature chicken feed because my opinion is that synthetics hurt peoples guts.

It said poultry do not have specific crude protein requirements, only proper amino acid levels. I wonder if that is the reason france has 10% protein feed and they call it high protein, but US has 16% to 20%.

Also it said algea has high methionine. I wonder if it is beneficial to leave the algea growing in the chicken drinkers that we all brush out.

But at the beginning it was saying synthetic methionine was going to not be allowed but it was granted okay for more years. And it is only allowed for poultry. If some people are trying to make it not allowed and some people have more money and make it allowed, I don't think that makes it safe. Sometimes the dose is the poison, but that doesn't make a small dose of poison safe.

It said animal proteins are expensive but I think small worm bins and insects breeding habitats do not have to be expensive. One time I saw thousands of crickets on old hay bales under some trees. They were living and breeding in them for no cost. One other time I opened my outside garbage can lid and maggots were covering my trash and the garbage can walls and lid. I let my chickens peck them up.

If high protein is not good for chickens then it should be even easier to produce small amounts of worms or crickets or larvaes or fish to supply natural methionine.

Something I wonder is why some people didn't want synthetic met to continue. Also why is only allowed for poultry? This a my new conspiracy theory. I think synthetic methionine is allowed in organic chicken so people can't really get any organic chicken. Did that raise your eyebrows and make you say Wow? lol Hmm...More reason to get away from synthetic ingredients and bioengineered foods, because we can't escape it even buying organic feed. Scary.

I can read your other links tonight. Thank you for them.

 

[FrostRanger]

I do agree that I don't like all these vegetarian chicken feeds as chickens are indeed omnivores. I did see that Purina's high protein layer feed had black soldier fly larvae while I was perusing tractor supply the other day. I'm hoping that more brands will start using insects as an ingredient in a similar manner