Thoughts on Universal healthcare

[Jolly Acres]

Quote:
You're joking, right? Good one.

People in France are laughing at us for being so brainwashed that we have allowed our health care to be tied to our employment. What better way for the proletariat to make sure that the working class stays working?

So, what's this about "no private businesses"?

People in France laughing at us.
Now that is funny.. If it weren't for our veterans there would be no France..

 

[Dar]

Quote:
no one is trying to tell you that your opinions are nothing and are brain washed....

but what we are trying to say is have an open mind...
be open to the idea that maybe somewhere down the line you may have been mis guided on some of the info you were given ...

and what worked way back in my grand dads day in regards to health care is no longer a viable option and somewhere progression needs to be made

you do make a lot of valid points

Yes they did:

Quote: "And you all buy into it because you're brainwashed into thinking that you're so "free" and that everyone else is not."

Thats insulting at best and not the first time this poster has insulted people on this particular posting, sorry. Going to stand my ground on this one.

I am VERY open to all ideaologies - if you recall I'm the one that asked you and everyone else under the UHS to post what where its pros and cons so we could compare, remember? I am not for UHS the way our gov't wants it, absolutely not - what I am for is REFORM, I've said it over and over again - oversight, regulation and mandatory set fees - that is what we need, not "all for one, one for all gov't mandated factions" that doesnt work, look at the military and Medicare/Medicaide and state run programs. Doesnt work, sorry.

I'm very open to debating - I said that last night - what I'm against is others bashing everyone else for their views while pushing their own as "the gospel". That my friend, is arrogance and ignorance at its finest.

Onward and upward....

opps i stand corrected.....

(shutting up now...lol

 

[horsejody]

Quote:
Actually I believe that the other poster did use the term, brainwashed, and did seem to minimize the opinion. Disagreement and discussion can be good, but telling people they are brainwashed is counter productive. Let's not get our hackles up. Let's discuss.

 

[WalkingWolf]

For the record Employment Health Care Benefits was NOT started here by the business class to keep the working class down. If you would bother to look at history you will find that was a benefit fought for by UNIONS(working class) and later adopted by non unions to compete for employees until it became standard. I would guess too, that paid vacations and bonuses and discounts are other benefits the bad bad employers use to keep us workers down.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Americans as whole are "brainwashed" by this notion of "freedom".

If the shoe fits, do us all a favor and put it on.

If the shoe does not fit, stop crying.

Thanks!

 

[horsejody]

Quote:
Those other countries all have their own versions of a "Constitution". The Constitution is not quite the ground-breaking, precedent-setting, holy grail of documents that Americans have been led to believe it is.

By the way, before you try to expel me you ought to know that I am a former Marine. You're welcome.

Good - Semper Fi to you then -

From a family of Marines myself; grandfather, father, brother and sister....

I served in the Marines too. DH was in and so was our son. BTW if govt run healthcare is anything like the govt run health care given to the military, I definitely don't want it.

 

[Jolly Acres]

Quote:
I am very thankful that Americans before us did not feel this way.
The American way is to stand for something you believe in.

 

[HarlansHollowFarms]

Quote:
Those other countries all have their own versions of a "Constitution". The Constitution is not quite the ground-breaking, precedent-setting, holy grail of documents that Americans have been led to believe it is.

By the way, before you try to expel me you ought to know that I am a former Marine. You're welcome.

Semper Fi, and I agree with you. I grew up military and have seen alot of places. As a grown woman I have lived in several countries, all of whom enjoy alot of freedoms and would argue to the death that thier system was better than ours.
The only people I see flocking to our country is those from oppressed nations looking for a better life. I do not see people from the UK, Canada, France....you see where I am going, flocking here because they need more freedom, quite the opposite. I do see people from our country go overseas and to Canada because they can not afford medication and needed preceedures in the USA.
I am proud to live in this country and for someone to tell me to leave because I do not agree with something is rather rude. I can not think of a single citizen of the USA that agrees with everything that is done here.

 

[Jena]

Quote:
Constitution was written for a reason - however it seems it can be "re-written at will" as of late

and yes... we do value our right to bear arms - after all - that amenedment was created to protect the people FROM the government.. not the other way around.

ETA: I agree with you WWolf - and add to that you can now be denied a job for your credit history as well as made to take a "personality indictator test" (i.e., Myers Briggs) to see if you're "compatible" with management. Now where is the "non-discriminatory" act in that I ask? Uh huh.... *major eye roll here*

"we do value our right to bear arms - after all - that amenedment was created to protect the people FROM the government.. not the other way around."

YES!

I don't think, in my idealistic reality, guns are necessary, but my idealistic reality does not include bad people and there will always be "evil" people out there. An evil person, to me, is anyone who harms another human being physically (though emotionally counts, too) or threatens their life with violence. Once a person is physically moving toward another person to harm them, I think self-defense measures are reasonable. And, if that includes shooting someone, I have no doubt I could do it if they were threatening my life, or the lives of my loved ones. (I'm quite afraid of the unpredictable behavior of other people; they scare me.) Personally, I only carry a can of grizzly bear repellent, but I'm prepared to use it on any imbecile who gets out of their car and approaches me (those road rage idiots).

When I was a child there were rifles, including the incredible Mannlicher and a .30-06 sitting to the right of the doorway. My grandmother carried a Smith & Wesson .38 revolver gifted to her from her father (who was a homesteader who resided within the borders of Glacier National Park) and a .22 with slide-action that she kept close by, too. This was my grandma.

Guns were commonplace. We never would have thought of messing with them. That's how we were raised. We even had our own. When I was a girl of six or seven I traded some sheep for a .22 rifle. I remember shooting it into the woodpile, but my grandpa had to stay close by. It was a terrifying experience for me, because I have a sensory disorder and I was frightened of guns. After that I didn't feel the need to shoot it. The noise was too much for me.

In countries like Wales, where firearms have been banned for a long time, they're already accustomed to living without them, so mostly the people, like farmers, who own them have antiquated war guns stowed away. But for a country, like the U.S., taking firearms away "may be" impractical and "may" lead to higher crime rate.

In Switzerland there is even more gun freedom than here, with all of the able-bodied young men issued military weapons that they store at home; however, currently there is a move to ban such weapons. This may be an interesting situation to follow.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/front/M...ect=105&sid=10366555&cKey=1235392065000&ty=st

Oops! I think I magnified the off-topic scenario.

Hi,

I live in Wales and I am afraid of guns too because of the noise, and also because of the damage that can be done with them. I think it is called a healthy respect.

I know in the US you all know your guns and do treat them with the greatest respect. We do have guns here. My Ex had 15 shotguns including pump actions, double barrels side by side and over and unders, as well as a number of rifles.

some of them could I guess be classed as antiques but some were very new. he was an excellent marksman. he used them for duck shoots and also for hunting.

We have strict rules here about the keeping of guns and I am sure that you all feel exactly the same as we used to (not now as I do not have guns) In the family home there were always guns around, but nobody would touch them unless they needed to, or were going shooting.

It is the idiots and the criminals that are scary with guns and they do not use the same kind of guns as a rule. The kick off a 12 bore would knock them over...lol. But gun crime is becoming a big problem here in the UK, as well as knife crime.

Unfortunately this is also having an impact on the traditional gun keepers. Now they have to lock up their guns in special cases with regular inspections.

but that is an issue of crime and not about those people who have always used guns for pest control and for sport in an appropriate manner.

Guess it is the same with health. All of these things here anyway have been good... but they are all being messed up by criminals.

It is also a lack of respect.

You who have always kept your guns and used them properly should be allowed to keep them. It is a tradition.

As for health, your data is yours it is personal and should be respected.

As should all information on you be in your control, and governments and criminals ( is there a difference in distinction?) should RESPECT your rights and privacy.

No matter what. and they should be culpable for any breaches.

 

[ursusarctosana]

Who does the soil, the air, the water actually belong to? There was a time when people lived on this continent without Europeans and they were doing just fine. Then one day these strange ships appeared and the curious natives watched as these tall, hairy people rowed on boats from the ships. What followed was bloodshed. These huge hairy people rode huge beasts and, without warning, massacred entire villages using war dogs and terrible weapons. Sometimes they took the babies and cooked them and sold them in markets.

That's what started this country. It's not an argument. It's the point-of-view of the people who were going about their business when foreigners appeared out of no where and started debating about what to do with this beautiful continent.

What follows has led to this...

Here we are!

I must remain humble enough to realize that the fighting that went on was amongst several European (Imperialist) nations that had decided they were going to "conquer" the people who already lived here. Seeing that those people were weak as far as weaponry, etc., they decided to just kill them.

So, I would feel ashamed if I even thought that I had the right to tell people to "go back to where they came from."

This is how I have lived my life--backed by this knowledge. It is equally ludicrous to expect all people of European descent to return to their ancestral homelands as it is to tell people to "leave America" if they have an opinion.

All is said and done in the past, but today the U.S. is supposed to be founded on ideas of freedom. Freedom to leave (as an insult or as end to an argument) is misusing the meaning of "freedom". This is actually part of what is dangerous about such arguments--if people argue these absurdities, they will lose sight of what freedom stands for and it's literal meaning, which is a distraction. All those running the country will be snickering, watching the ignoramus masses argue and blame each other while the country is being tightened into a racist, fascist, us-vs.-them regime.

I'm not saying this is happening, or will happen, but I do think that using threats to end an argument is an unsophisticated way to have a supposed last word. There is a lot to be gained by ongoing discussions that explore deeply those things that affect our individual lives and our countries as a whole, BUT if we spend too much time on the petty stuff and the emotional slights and not enough time on considering "real" information, then we are limiting our intellectual powers when it comes to making decisions as individuals AND as a country of "individuals".