Tips on training puppies to manage my flock, please...

[alldembirds]

First of all, I said "likely". Secondly, I would also postulate that there is likely no clear and consistent history of reinforcement and/or punishment between them and their dogs either.

you can tell when dealing with dogs if they feel dominant over you or not, My in-laws dogs will practically order them around all day, let me go here, put me here, clean up this poo, pet this, feed me this snack, my dogs seem much happier , mine don't have the accident the other dogs have and don't tell me what to do at all, they patiently wait for commands, being dominant does make a big difference in a dogs behavior and how well he listens

 

[alldembirds]

I never followed the link...could not have guessed that's what it meant

surprise!

 

[aart]

Awesome! And thanks! I do expect two or even three years of training on a leash before I would trust her alone with them. My last shepherd that was stolen was three and she had just got to where I could trust her..she was a rescue, so not at all the same early start as this baby has.

Pictures coming up! I took some yesterday when it was nice out.

You're welcome.
Great can't wait to see the pics!

 

[TalkALittle]

being dominant does make a big difference in a dogs behavior and how well he listens

I think we may in fact be arguing similar points. In my opinion, the fact that your in-laws dogs run the show is less about how "dominant" the dogs or your in-laws are and more about how consistent your in-laws might be about setting expectations and following through with meaningful reinforcement or punishment for the dogs' actions so that the dogs learn what those expectations are and learn to behave within certain boundaries.

It sounds like you set expectations and boundaries for your dogs and provide consequences in response to their actions--either rewarding the good or punishing the bad or both. I imagine you don't let them get away with something you don't find appropriate very often. I also imagine the case is not so with your in-laws and their dogs. That's what I refer to as consistency. Some people call it dominance. I think our different definitions are causing us to clash.

The problem when people try to discuss the role of "dominance" or "dominance methods" in dog training is often with the definition of the word. It is a loaded word. Loaded with everyone's individual impression of what dominance means or what it means to act dominantly. In animal behavior (and last time I checked dogs were still animals) dominance refers to the priority access to resources. Animals within the same group who typically get priority access to resources are referred to as the dominant members of that group. Dominance fluctuates because availability of resources changes and therefore so does value of those resources. Dominance can't be demanded. Dominance only exists when another animal's submission allows it to.

Many people ascribe physical, coercive, forcefulness to so called "dominant" behavior or training. When it was suggested that a person needs to deliver a verbal cue in a certain manner or with a certain tone or inflection in order to get the dog to do it, it implied (to me at least) that force or coercion was a necessary component to getting a dog to reliably perform a behavior and that needed to be reflected in the verbal cue. I offered a counter position. You can get the deference or submission from a dog without physical force or intimidation.

If I walk up to my dog and ask him to "sit", he sits because there's been a whole lot of times when he didn't sit and an unfavorable consequence resulted and a whole lot of times when he did sit and a favorable consequence resulted (sometimes that favorable consequence is merely the absence of the unfavorable consequence). I guarantee that if your in-laws asked him to sit he'd sit for them too. He's not sitting because your in-laws are dominant or because I'm dominant or because of the manner in which I say the cue. He sits because of the history of clear and consistent delivery of meaningful consequences has taught him that it is in his best interests to defer to the human's request and always sit when told. People don't train dogs, personalities don't train dogs--a history of consistent and predictable consequences train dogs.

 

[alldembirds]

we agree some , but I disagree strongly about much of what you said. I don't even know were to start. i'm guessing the definition of dominance is what we will continue to but heads on, but whatever right it takes all types.

In my opinion I believe my in-laws dogs think they are dominant and so they think they need to tell them what to do, the dogs bark like crazy until i say enough, my inlaws can yell at them to stop and noting happens, and they end up putting the dogs in the garage where they bark and bark, there dogs don't have accidents when i watch them, don't wine, don't bark , they just lay there, like good dogs. I don't do anything but use my words and my natural dominance, I have never had to be physically forceful.

you are right in assuming I am very strict with my dogs, they don't do anything without my say so, anything at all. I only reward with love, they don't get treats . I dont have to physically convince them of anything, they all listen well and always have, they sit in the hall or corner most of the time and stare at me, the second I stand up and signal they all four line up behind/next to me ready to go, I have three pitbulls and an english bulldog, dogs you have to be naturally dominant to control.

even if you arn't naturally dominant I believe you can command dominance... like you said "Animals within the same group who typically get priority access to resources are referred to as the dominant members of that group. Dominance fluctuates because availability of resources changes and therefore so does value of those resources." In my pack availability of resources does not fluctuate I have all the resources, without me they have nothing, they know this. cementing my dominance.

you mean when i suggested you should use the command leave it dominantly like most commands?, because he jokingly asked if it would work if you said it like the gulls from finding nemo, I think we both know that when trying to use a command like mine you shouldn't be all cutesy and fun sounding, you should sound serious...or dominant , like you actually are giving a command not playing.

your dog may be a good dog, but my inlaws couldnt get a poodle with parkinson's to shake, I have little faith in them being able to command any dog

 

[TalkALittle]

We will have to agree to disagree on the matter then. I do stand by my statement that commands need not be given on a harsh or serious tone to ensure reliability. My dogs know that if I say the cue I mean it and will follow through, regardless of the tone I use.

 

[RachelLeigh]

is there a number of posts on byc that I need to get to in order to be able to post a picture. ive tried many times to get a picture up and it gives me a failed message....in every other page or site, I can upload easily. Since I'm new I thought maybe Im supposed to make a certain number of posts before I can load a picture.

 

[aart]

is there a number of posts on byc that I need to get to in order to be able to post a picture. ive tried many times to get a picture up and it gives me a failed message....in every other page or site, I can upload easily. Since I'm new I thought maybe Im supposed to make a certain number of posts before I can load a picture.

I thought it was like 10 posts...don't know if they've changed it.

There's an FAQ section you could look or ask in.