Tolbunt Polish

[eeyore75]

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I want ANY Tolbunts...

I would love, love, love to raise these birds. I'm captivated by them!

Nat, where on Earth did you find hatching eggs?

Jeremy-the eggs came from a good friend of my hubbies. No one really knows this person has them and they asked him to keep it that way because they aren't out to sell them or anything-they are working to improve the lines/breed for now. They asked my Dh to help raise them for a back up just in case something bad happens to their birds. So I guess you can say were surrogates? hahaha
We got 24 eggs-17 made it to lockdown...15 hatched??? 10 pures...the night they went into their brooder-something happened with their waterer and it tipped over in the middle of the night-I heard loud screaming peeping in the middle of the night and ran to the brooder. The whole waterer was empty and all chicks were drenched and 5 had drowned It was only one of those small waterers--you know the plastic like quart containers? In 5 years I had never seen or heard of this happening?? I put all chicks back in bator over night-by the next morning all the ones I put in were dried and fluffed again-healthy as horses but boy it was a sad thing to witness at 3 am and feel completely responsible for those the death of the babies

great hatch rate!! Sorry about the losses- that part sucks.

 

[klf73]

well, since I ended up with 3 tolbunt cockerals I was going to make one pen for tolbunt x silver laced and a tolbunt x gold laced and was going to take the F1's from each and cross them, hoping for a few pure? and if not will take some of these pullets to the pure tolbunt roo I didn't use(the lines these came from are supposed to be diverse)

. at this point tho I am not sure what to do as I swore off any "projects" so.....I was just hoping to have a pen for eye candy really...

maybe Nat can send me some eggs when her dh's start to lay

.

eta- I have some orloff hens, don't think I would outcross...personally, I think it messes with type too much IMO. I would rather pick another color of the same breed to maintain body style etc. they have enough challenges within this breed without adding the traits of a breed that looks so dissimilar to me

color isn't everything, especially when it compromises the breed

 

[Illia]

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Not true - Because both offspring will be het for the mahogany type gene, 25% actually will turn out the right color

I believe F1 x F1 is fine as long as the non-Tolbunts are unrelated, and to make it completely okay, the Tolbunt parents, too.

But, to each their own

 

[eeyore75]

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Not true - Because both offspring will be het for the mahogany type gene, 25% actually will turn out the right color

I believe F1 x F1 is fine as long as the non-Tolbunts are unrelated, and to make it completely okay, the Tolbunt parents, too.

But, to each their own

hmmmmmmmm......... I had considered do a pen of F1 x F1 or F2 for added gene diversity before crossing back........ if I could get close colors would be worth it!!!

 

[welasharon]

This is all so new to me. The pair I have are brother/sister..that I do know. The two GL hens I will need to see if they are related. There is a tolbunt roo rather close to me. Mine came from parents that came from Greenfire Farms and her roo came from sutillman here on BYC.

 

[welasharon]

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So with two related tolbunts..how would you proceed? Or is it a bust?
sharon

 

[cherylcohen]

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WOOHOO awesome picture!

 

[eeyore75]

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sutillman got her eggs from Lucinda at Greenacres Poultry- all three of her Tolbunts are from that (2 seperate batches- "same" parents). I'm not sure who Greenfire is or how related they would be to sutillman's birds.

 

[eeyore75]

Quote:
Not true - Because both offspring will be het for the mahogany type gene, 25% actually will turn out the right color

I believe F1 x F1 is fine as long as the non-Tolbunts are unrelated, and to make it completely okay, the Tolbunt parents, too.

But, to each their own

hmmmmmmmm......... I had considered do a pen of F1 x F1 or F2 for added gene diversity before crossing back........ if I could get close colors would be worth it!!!

I decided to play with a run down gene-wise of outcomes based off F1 to F1 because of what Illia posted.

OK- since I understand rabbit genetic codes best- I'll do this as a "rabbit type" code. Since Tolbunt seems to be a double recessive to me (bred to another color none are Tolbunt- just carriers) And I'm not sure how the Mahogany red gene works (with rabbits red is the same code as orange but has rufus modifiers- other colors can as well- more modifiers= darker red) I'll say it is also a double recessive gene for this demo. I'll give the genes these codes for lack of knowing what they should be & this is just a informal playing out the outcome. The double or single mahogany gene could be hidden on Black, White, etc birds- I would think it would show up on the Gold Lace color. For this F1 cross lets say the birds used in the F1 cross were Gold Lace.

Tolbunt: tt
Other Color: CC
Mahogany: mm
Non Mahogany: NN

The break down on F1 (Ct Nm) x F1 (Ct Nm) breedings:

25% Non Carriers (CC)
6.25% NN
12.50% Nm
6.25% mm

50% Carriers (Ct)
12.50% NN
25% Nm
12.50% mm

25% Tolbunt marked (tt)
6.25% NN
12.50% Nm
6.25% mm

So from this cross you would get 75% that you would have no idea if they are carrying Tolbunt now. Unless there was some white on the crest/throat/chest those would most likey be carriers and you could grow them up for use- void that as a deciding factor if you use a White Cap or Splash varity for your outcross. The issue with the non Tolbunt marked ones at this point is- if they DON'T carry the Tolbunt gene- they are now too realated to Tolbunts to use in an outcross to Tolbunts. To me- I would scrap the non Tolbunt marked ones (better have a culling program in place- a strict one)

Lets say we hatched out 100 chicks- So with the "25" tolbunts out of this "100" at least 6 of them are "True" Tolbunt marked, and at least 6 of them- are a gold Tolbunt. the other 12ish are inbetween. Grow these up for your next cross to Tolbunt or outcross varity.

That leaves 75 chicks to cull- unless there is those white spots on crest/ neck/ chest and you plan on hanging on to those for other F1 projects (to Tolbunt or F1,F2, etc) then maybe there is only 50-60 to cull (out of my 6 F1s 2 or 3 have noticable white markings). Up to you if you grow them up to feathered or cull them young.

 

[welasharon]

Please be patient with me. I am not stupid but I have no clue at all about genetics....so we are talking remedial level here....The results from the first mating are F1. (Taking the tolbunt roo to a GL hen.) This run down here is what you would get (percentage wise) out of the mating of tolbunt to GL?
sharon