Topic of the Week - Chicken Myths, True or False?

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Medicated chick starter usually contains amprolium, which is a thiamine blocker. Waterfowl babies have a higher need for thiamine than chicks, so feeding them medicated chick starter may result in a thiamine deficiency, which can lead to problems such as stunted growth, lameness, bowed legs and swollen joints.
I've been meaning to get back to this, and yes, it's true that most feeds contain amprolium, but there are other drugs used as well. Amprolium can be fed to *all* avian species and most mammals.

Ducks, geese, turkeys, and gamebirds have similar nutritional requirements, so if this "medicated' thing were true, it would also apply to turkeys and gamebirds.

Ducks, geese, turkeys, gamebirds need more *niacin* than chckens, so chick feed should be avoided because it does not contain enough *niacin* for anything other than chicken chicks.

Some waterfowl need a diet with 70 ppm niacin, which chick starter is not. This is why you will see so many posts and articles about adding brewers yeast or b vitamins to feed and/or water. Need to double check, but I think chicks only need 35 ppm niacin.

Niacin deficiency in poultry is what causes legs problems, not thiamine deficiency. Thiamine deficiency is very different.


More to come...
Metzer Farms - Niacin and ducks:
http://metzerfarms.blogspot.com/2011/03/are-my-ducklings-leg-problems-due-to.html

Metzer Farms - Medicated feed and ducks:
http://metzerfarms.blogspot.com/2011/11/can-medicated-feed-be-used-for.html
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Wednesday, November 30, 2011
Can Medicated Feed Be Used for Waterfowl?

Can medicated feed be given to ducks and geese? Many people say No. I will explain why I feel the answer is Yes.

First of all, there are four drugs (medicines) that are approved by the USDA for the use in ducks. These have been used successfully for years to control a variety of waterfowl diseases. They are Chlorotetracycline, Neomycin, Novobiocin and Rofenaid.


The bigger concern, however, is sacked feed sold at your local feed store. Some of these sacked feeds (especially starter feeds) have medications in them to control coccidiosis. Coccidiosis is an internal protozoa parasite that can harm chickens, turkeys, game birds and occasionally waterfowl. As coccidiosis is a common problem, and most people have chickens, the feed manufacturers will often include medication in starter feed to better control this disease. But what about waterfowl? Will it harm them?

We have contacted all the feed mills that we could find that make sacked poultry feed in the US. From material they have sent us or from their website, we have learned that these 29 mills make 59 different starter feeds for chickens, waterfowl and game birds. Of these 59 starter feeds, 19 have a medication in them to control coccidiosis.

Four drugs are used. Fifteen of the feeds contain Amprolium, 1 has Monensin, 1 has Lasolocid and 1 has BMD (Bacitracin methylene disalicylate).

To investigate this further, I asked for the assistance of Dr. Larry McDougal of the University of Georgia and Dr. Alison Martin of the Livestock Conservancy. Both of these individuals have done extensive work with coccidiosis. They found research that had been done here in the United States and abroad on the effect of these four drugs on waterfowl. As Dr. McDougal said “Not one of these papers described any harmful effects to waterfowl except where the normal dosage was significantly overdosed.”

Many of you have heard of Dave Holderread, of Holderread’s Waterfowl Farm in Oregon. Dave is an expert on waterfowl and an ultimate waterfowl breeder. He conducted research on coccidiostats with Oregon State University in 1982 (1). His paper states “Frequently publications pertaining to waterfowl state that medicated feeds should not be fed to ducklings and goslings. In some localities, producers and hobbyists who raise a small number of ducklings and goslings can only purchase medicated chick, turkey or game bird starter and grower feeds. Because of the lack of documented information on this subject and the numerous requests for advice on this matter, anticoccidial drugs zoalene, sulfaquinoxaline and amprolium were mixed in mash feed and fed to ducks up to four weeks of age.”

His conclusion was “From this experiment, it appears that sulfaquinoxaline, zoalene, or amprolium at the manufacturers' use levels for chickens and turkeys did not cause mortality, stunted growth or cripples when fed to Khaki Campbellducklings to 4 weeks of age."

Therefore, it appears research shows these drugs do not harm waterfowl if used at the rates commonly used with chickens and turkeys.

Have there been coccidiostats used in the past that were harmful to waterfowl? Probably and that is why the myth began. But those drugs are no longer allowed or no longer used in the United States.

What if you have the choice of medicated or non-medicated starter feed of equal nutritional value? My recommendation would be to use the non-medicated feed. There is no point in feeding medication when it is not needed.

HOWEVER, if the choice is nutritionally correct medicated starter feed (20%+ protein) or non-medicated feed that does not meet the nutritional needs of the ducklings and goslings, I would definitely recommend the nutritionally correct, medicated starter feed. Research shows the medication will not harm the waterfowl.

(1) Holderread, D., Nakaue, H.S., Arscott, G.H. 1983 Poultry Science 62:1125-1127"
 
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This subject has come up a lot lately - Cocci = coccidia or coccidiosis
This post explains why this is not true:
Originally posted by Treslilbirds:
":caf I often see users refer to coccidiosis in chickens on the site and usually the terms "coccidiosis", "coccidia", and "cocci" are used as if they are one in the same. But they are actually two different organisms. I worked at a veterinary hospital for 10 years and have seen both.

So coccidia are a single celled parasite that normally infect the intestinal tract. I saw it a lot in kittens and puppies, only maybe 2 cases of an adult dog with it. We treated it with oral Albon suspension. This is what coccidia looks like under a microscope. Coccidiosis is a coccidia infection.
img_2388-jpg.1100777


Ok, now for cocci. Cocci is a round, spherical shaped bacteria that's common in most animals, but sometimes they have an overgrowth which leads to issues. I saw it a lot in dogs and cats with ear infections, skin infections, and even in poop smears of diarrhea. Yes a poop smear is just what it sounds like. Smear some poop on a glass slide, heat fix it, stain it, look at said poop.
You treat an overgrowth of cocci differently than coccidia because they are two different organisms. Cocci is a bacteria. In GI infections we usually treated with Reglan to regulate gut motility and probiotics to regulate the growth of bad bacteria. After that and a week of eating a bland diet, most dogs (and cats) were back to normal. This is what cocci looks like under a microscope. This is actually a picture of staphylococcus, a type of cocci bacteria.
img_2389-jpg.1100781


I hope this was helpful. I often see people talking about cocci and coccidiosis as if they are one in the same. I was thinking it would be bad if someone were trying to treat for coccidiosis perhaps, and use a treatment for cocci, not knowing they were two different things.


:thumbsup Treslilbirds"
Read the whole thread here:
Just a friendly reminder on coccidiosis vs cocci
 
One thing I do want to add about folk wisdom is that there often is a lot of wisdom in it. Sometimes it's just difficult to separate truth from myth.

A few months ago I ran across a bit of folk wisdom that I didn't think was true, but I found out otherwise. Some guy the goes by the name Ol' Duke had a Youtube video out where he was selling this device call a "Worm Gitter." It's basically just two sticks. One stick has a row of four notches with a point on one end of the stick, and the other stick is simply a dowel rod. O'l Duke claimed that if you stick the pointy end of the one stick into the ground and rub the other stick along the notches to make a drumming sound, kind of like running a stick across a picket fence, that it would cause the worms to come to the surface. I thought this was total malarkey; however, the demonstration proved me wrong. I was amazed!

Ol' Duke actually knows a thing or two about worms and turning compost into nutrient-rich fertilizer made of worm castings. His method could be VERY helpful to those of us with chickens who want to know how to process our compost heaps into usable compost.

Ol' Duke may not be sophisticated, but he's got a lot of salt-of-the-Earth, country wisdom. I was very impressed with this video and many others he has out there:


ETA: Contrary to the uncanny resemblance, no, I'm not Ol' Duke, but we are both from SW Louisiana! :lol:
I thought this was crazy until my husband showed me 🤣
 
Not a myth or fact just wondering
Do chickens feel empathy or grief like when a flock member dies or offspring or sibling dies?
Well, chickens have no clue on family ties so they might notice briefly, and if they were close might get depressed for a few days but I'd say they rebound quick. Chickens are prey animals after all, if they were always moping over lost flock mates, there's be a lot less chickens.
 

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