Topic of the Week - Deworming chickens

[Pyxis]

@Isay Willow
 , thanks for the link. It sure seems like it's worth doing more research, but the study doesn't say that it kept any of the hens parasite free, and that's what so many people think it does. Heck, I was one... I bought a huge bag of the food grade stuff and I put it everywhere, as in every square inch of their 10' x 20' coop, and all the spots in the yard where they dust bathed. Thought I was covered until one day I checked a hen and she was covered in lice! So then I dusted her from head to toe and rechecked for the next 3 days and that was no appreciable change. 


-Kathy

Yep, that was my point exactly - it does not kill all worms and keep chickens parasite free. It might help to keep them from getting as many worms, but they're still gonna have worms.

Additionally, studies done on other animals, mostly ruminants, have not found it to be effective in them at all. In one study that I will have to find and link, the goats treated with DE ended up with a higher egg load at the end of the study, meaning DE didn't help with the worms at all and in fact they were able to reproduce successfully and the goats had a higher worm load than when the study started.

 

[Laurel Meadows]

Earlier this year I contacted "Merial" one of the biggest manufactures of Ivermectin in the USA. They informed me that they have "no information on treating poultry with ivermectin". Where are others getting poultry dosage information?

Before I will use any medication, I need four questions answered:

1) who supplied the information
2) what was supplied
3) where was it supplied
4) when was is done

Smart person! Merial won't tell you what the ivermectin dose for chickens because it's not labeled for use in chickens.

I get my dosing information from reading several different veterinary text books, artices written by vets, properly documented studies, my vet, vets at UC Davis, and from posts where people have stated what dose their vet prescribed. I do not trust dosing info from places like Gale Damerow's books, the chicken chicks website, etc.... all of those have dosing errors!

Two of the text books I reference are online, but do require a little brain work to use them.

-Kathy

One source that I trust (because veterinarians I've worked with over the years do) is the Merck Veterinary manual. This link
from Merck http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/poultry/helminthiasis/overview_of_helminthiasis_in_poultry.html
has a TON of information and if you read waaaay down, there is a tiny paragraph that to my surprise, says DE in feed is effective at reducing certain parasite loads. Fwiw I don't use Diatomaceous Earth. I think largely its ineffective and gives people a false sense of treatment but I found the Merck statement interesting nonetheless.
Merck also states in addition to other compounds not approved for use in poultry but determined effective include:
..." Ivermectin 1% at 10mg/ml in water were effective in removing A galli, H gallinarim, and Capillaria in chickens..."
There is also a statement within the lengthy overview that there is widespread roundworm resistance to Wazine / Piperazine. Obviously those of us who don't have commercial birds and want broad-spectrum products are left with off-label deworming choices and best guess egg and/or meat withdrawal times.
These threads are very helpful to me in trying to make informed and safe decisions for my flock. I certainly appreciate the contributions of everyone, and in particular, Kathy. It's very clear that she has spent a great deal of time to share as accurate and up to date information on meds as possible. As a former Vet Tech that is much appreciated!

Many reputable vets will say, if asked, that they can't recommend these off-label products for our birds, even though they believe them to be very effective. My goal is to get a decent microscope and start doing my own birds' fecal float tests pre and post deworming while rotating the reportedly effective products. My issue is that I won't know what is effective (or not!) on the parasites my birds don't have.

 

[casportpony]

AS much as I like the Merck Manual, I think there are some errors in it.

"Several compounds are reported to be effective against nematode infections but are not approved for use in poultry or other avian species in the USA. Three such compounds, tetramisole at 40 mg/kg, flubendazole at 30 ppm in feed, and ivermectin 1% at 10 mg/mL in water were effective in removing A galli, H gallinarum, and Capillaria in chickens."

Is that a typo? What do they mean by ivermectin 1% at 10 mg/ml?


-Kathy

 

[Laurel Meadows]

"Several compounds are [COLOR=FF0000]reported[/COLOR] to be effective against nematode infections but are not approved for use in poultry or other avian species in the USA. Three such compounds, tetramisole at 40 mg/kg, flubendazole at 30 ppm in feed, and [COLOR=FF0000]ivermectin 1% at 10 mg/mL[/COLOR] in water were effective in removing A galli, H gallinarum, and Capillaria in chickens."
Is that a typo? What do they mean by ivermectin 1% at 10 mg/ml?

-Kathy

Yes their use of "reported" really should include footnotes citing what sources / studies they are referring to although I doubt many exist. My hunch is that over the years these medications have been used by vets outside the commercial industry with some degree of success and these informal/anecdotal accounts by vets have become "accepted" treatments within the veterinary community in the absence of formal studies. The Ivermectin mg/ml info is actually not a typo. It is just describing 1% Ivermectin injectable which contains 10mg of ivermectin per ml as per the label

 

[casportpony]

Quote: I know it's 10 mg/ml, but why no dose listed? All other wormers shown have a dose listed, and the "at" implies that maybe they meant something like mg per liter or 10 mg per gallon.

-Kathy

 

[Laurel Meadows]

I know it's 10 mg/ml, but why no dose listed? All other wormers shown have a dose listed, and the "at" implies that maybe they meant something like mg per liter or 10 mg per gallon.

-Kathy

Yeah I agree the way they wrote it implies a dosage. When you asked me about it, I second guessed myself lol but the 10mg/ml is the only way it makes any sense to me. I read that paragraph several times thinking I missed the dosage somewhere in there but they definitely don't provide one

The last update to the overview was 2013 so I hope that the next review will list a dosage or clarification. I'm going to continue to look around the web and see if I can find anything else from reputable sources on the 1% dosage for birds.

Congrats on your contest win, btw!! :yiipchick

 

[Isay Willow]

Here is an outstanding article you can download as PDF September Diatomaceous Earth - cals.arizona.edu, DE Research American Assoc. of Veterinary Parasitologists, This next article is a great one. Diatomaceous Earth - PHDPRODUCTS.COM, PDF article complete article of of Abstract sent earlier Effect of diatomaceous earth on parasite load, egg production ...

 

[Isay Willow]

Do a search of the following. research on diatomaceous earth by american universities There ar several PDF doc. that can be down loaded and give grate information about DE use for animals and birds

 

[brummie]

Haven't read all the posts, but from my own experience DE works for parasites around the coop IF applied correctly. Most people just dust all over the coop with it and then claim it doesn't work.

What you need to do is mix DE in water to a paint consistenancy, and then get a paintbrush and brush all over the coop, especially in joints, under perches etc. once it dries out, where ever you painted with it will turn grey in colour, but mites will disappear from there within a couple of days. By wetting it and painting it, there is no danger from inhaling the DE for you or your chicks as it does not remain dusty anymore.

This is the only method of used for controlling mites around coop in the summer(one good paintjob will last a whole year) and it does me fine. The first year I learned of this method I actually successfully killed off a massive red mite outbreak doing this (ok, so I also went out at night and dipped a paintbrush in Dry DE and painted along lines of hordes of red mite killing them there and then).

Some people do overly criticise DE, but it does have its uses if APPLIED correctly.

 

[Isay Willow]

To Kathy I dust the nest and the roosts and the litter on the floor under them. My chickens do not have lice. I use a small duster to get an even spread. I would say the lice are in the nest and in the litter on the floor. Isay Willow