Transgender duck??

[TheDuckGuy]

Psst. I think we are on the same side.

Oooo

 

[FloorCandy]

The thing is, getting to the bottom of if there is real scientific evidence of this happening in birds or if it is a human desire fueled by political correctness to believe it happens naturally in the animial kingdom.
So it is a touch hard to seperate it all out when debating about it.

I see nothing wrong with a bit of sarcasm in a healthy debate. No need to get offended..
That brings us back to feelings over fact.

You can feel how you want, however I cited a published article and asked if anyone had further reading to support this. I’ve presented cited sources and asked for verification, which falls in line with the scientific method of posing questions and researching and studying those questions based on science and observation. I would appreciate sarcasm if I believed this person even read the article I cited. They continued to claim that there is no way an animal can change gender, when the article I cited specifically questioned that belief, and sought the answers by contacting a leading British ornithologist. I then cited a pricey book which I do not own, but is said to officially cite that exact info by that exact source, and I asked if anyone can confirm this is true. If I ask @Ravenlover to cite a book, they will cite the book with a photo of the page I was asking about, and I hoped someone else owned this particular book and could do the same. Until I can see for myself, I’m open to the idea if it is supported by someone who did the science and asked the questions, and then opened birds up and checked for himself. Answering my question by stating their opinion with sarcasm is not answering and is not in line with this thread.

 

[casportpony]

There is another BYC member, @TJChickens, that had a peahen develope male coloring:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/peahen-turning-into-a-peacock-at-4-years-old.1196465/

 

[FloorCandy]

There is another BYC member, @TJChickens, that had a peahen develope male coloring:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/peahen-turning-into-a-peacock-at-4-years-old.1196465/

Ty ty ty, once I began reading that thread I followed sources cited there to learn the term is spontaneous sex reversal, once I found that, finding reliable, official sources was easy!

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/disorders-of-the-reproductive-system/sex-reversal-in-poultry

 

[TJChickens]

There is another BYC member, @TJChickens, that had a peahen develope male coloring:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/peahen-turning-into-a-peacock-at-4-years-old.1196465/

Yes, and I still have this peahen/cock. She went from raising babies to having a male tail and coloring. Every year she has a longer train. Of course she can't lay eggs anymore.

 

[casportpony]

Yes, and I still have this peahen/cock. She went from raising babies to having a male tail and coloring. Every year she has a longer train. Of course she can't lay eggs anymore.

Thanks for the update!

 

[TJChickens]

There is actually quite a bit of documentation about female birds basically becoming male. In a nutshell, birds only produce eggs from one ovary. If that ovary becomes non-functioning, usually because of age or a tumour, the other ovary takes over and produces testosterone. If they live long enough after this change, they may start to produce sperm.

 

[shawluvsbirds]

There is actually quite a bit of documentation about female birds basically becoming male. In a nutshell, birds only produce eggs from one ovary. If that ovary becomes non-functioning, usually because of age or a tumour, the other ovary takes over and produces testosterone. If they live long enough after this change, they may start to produce sperm.

I think we all agree with that.
I think the question here was are they actually biologically male once this happens.
Even that article says "male characteristics"

 

[shawluvsbirds]

And specifically can a once laying female duck grow a penis?
Peacocks don't have that equipment do they? I mean.. I know they could still possiy be fertile without the appendage.
But... Changing plumage and in my mind still doesn't mean a change in gender.
Producing sperm though...now that is interesting.

 

[FloorCandy]

I think we all agree with that.
I think the question here was are they actually biologically male once this happens.
Even that article says "male characteristics" View attachment 2753218

You are purposely cutting out the rest of the text, that is the secondary information, which is saying that a condition in the adrenal glands or ovary can cause similar effects to the example described above it.

Sex Reversal in Poultry​

By
Rodrigo A. Espinosa
, DVM, MAM, DACPV, Aviagen, Inc
Last full review/revision Aug 2019 | Content last modified Sep 2019

If the normal left ovary of a hen is destroyed by infection, the vestigial right organ may develop as a testicle and the hen may develop male characteristics. Neoplasia in the adrenal glands or ovary that result in the production of testosterone could also cause the development of male secondary sexual characteristics (comb and wattles) in affected females.


Having a testicle is more than just outside characteristics, if you follow @casportpony link, you will find a lot of other sources cited there as well, from scientists and veterinarians. You can also use the terms I provided to search on your own, there is a lot of information and documentation.