Trim talons or remove rooster?

[MNchickaroo]

We have 10 industrious hens...mixed breeds of SLW, Buff Orps, Buckeyes and an Ameraucauna. We also have two gorgeous, and giant, roosters, who are not aggressive to humans or the ladies, but they are very, very amorous. I have 5 of the hens in chicken jackets (saddles) which I made using the pattern from Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens by Gail Damerow. (Note: the Buckeye hens and the Ameraucauna seem to weather the treading better than the other breeds at this time!) However, the roosters are now taking off feathers from the upper part of the wings of the jacketed hens, and so now I have another problem. So, here's the questions:
1. Is it the spur or the talons scraping off the feathers?
2. Should I trim the talons, I read you can curve the shape so they're not so sharp??
3. How do I trim the talons, anyone have a good resource, video, etc? I've found lots on rooster spurs, but not on talons.
4. Are two roosters per 10 hens too many, do I need to remove one of my boys permanently? I really like my boys, so this is a tough choice, but I don't want my girls to get hurt!
(FYI, In case it makes a difference, the rooster breeds are SLW and Buckeye)
Thanks for any help or direction!

 

[SnapdragonQ]

I don't have a video to post, but I used to give my tom turkey regular manicures. You need to be sure not to take much off or you'll hit the quick and that will bleed like crazy. It's a good idea to have some styptic handy, which can be found in stick form in the shaving isle at stores or in powdered form (recommended for animals) at farm supply stores.

I've done lots of nails and hooves on lots of animals so am comfortable doing it, but if you are unsure I'd advise to start with a metal file and file things down to blunt them. Any metal file will work- wood working file, goat/sheep hoof file, etc.. something small you can use with one hand while the other holds that nail still. No horse hoof files...they will take too much off in a swipe because they are made for much harder surfaces.
Your goal is to blunt them, or round and smooth them, like the tip of a finger.

If you are comfortable you can use dog nail trimmers, or even wire cutters, however, only take small little nips at a time. Usually one or two nips will do, then file it smooth.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You don't say how old they are. This type of damage is fairly common when they are pullets and cockerels, more than when they are mature hens and roosters. Often the cockerels causing this type of damage don't have much of a spur, so yes, it is the talons. Talons the correct word, by the way. I often incorrectly call them claws. They are sharp dangerous weapons. Once the feathers are removed a sharp spur can cut them, so if they have a spur it can be good to blunt that tip too.

There are different reasons it is usually an immature cockerel problem instead of a mature rooster issue. Often the ladies don't respect an immature cockerel as a suitable father for their children. He's an immature brat, not dependable. So they resist, which can increase the violence of mating. Cockerels often do not have a good mating technique, it's more about force than mutual respect. Their hormones are usually running wild so they don't have great self-control. You said they are amorous. That sounds like a cockerel thing.

They can have what looks like favorites. Sometimes this is the more docile females, they are an easy target. But often it can be the females that most resist them. The mating act is about dominance as well as sex. The one on bottom is accepting the dominance of the one on top, either willingly or by force. Some of the ones they are going after more often and rougher may be ones they are trying to dominate.

Some chickens have brittle feathers. It is sort of based on nutrition and often genetic. Typically it is more about how they digest and process certain nutrients than whether they are eating them, especially if some have the problem and others don't. With 5 of your 10 having the problem I doubt this is your issue. But something that might help "soften" their feathers is to feed them a little BOSS. That's Black Oil Sunflower Seeds. BOSS is fairly high in protein but what I'm after is the oil. It doesn't take much but the oil can help condition their feathers.

You can trim their talons. Like your fingernails or their spurs the talons have a quick. The quick doesn't go all the way to the end but can vary some as to how far it actually goes. If you cut into the quick it will bleed so it can be good idea to have cornstarch or flour handy to toss on to stop the bleeding. On the few occasions I've cut into the quick on spur or talons it hasn't bled much.

I also don't have a video, it takes two hands and I do it by myself. I wrap the bird in a large towel around the wings and lay him down while holding onto the feet, that tends to calm him down. I use a Dremel tool with one of those discs you use to cut metal and clip the point off flat. I don't file or smooth, I figure he will smooth them pretty soon just by walking around. I think the heat generated by that cutting disc cauterizes the wound and helps minimize bleeding. Some people use pet nail clippers, the kind you use on dog claws. At least one lady on here said she used a Dremel tool but used a grinder attachment instead of that cutting disc. Lots of different ways.

Is two too many for ten. There is a myth on this forum that all your problems go away if you have a ratio of 1 to 10. That's based on many hatcheries using a 1 in 10 ratio to assure full fertility in their pen breeding method and really doesn't apply to us. Many of us keep a much smaller ratio and don't have these issues. Others may have one rooster with 20 or more hens and still have these issues. That's even with mature chickens, not pullets and cockerels.

I typically ask what are you goals with those roosters. Why do you want them? The only reason you need even one rooster is for fertile eggs, anything else is personal preference. Personal preference is strong, we all have those, but it is a want, not a need. I suggest people keep as few males as they can and still meet their goals. That's not because you are guaranteed more problems with more males but that problems are more likely. I don't know all your goals, I don't know what the correct answer is for you.

Sometimes when they all mature these types of problems go away. Sometimes they don't. That's why age can be important. Sometimes having more than one male can spur their competition, things might calm down if one goes away. Removing one may go a long way toward solving this issue.

If the entire feather is gone the feather should soon grow back. But if even a bit of the shaft is still there that feather will not be replaced until she molts. With bare skin she may be cut during mating by a talon or a spur. Blunting the sharp tips of the talons and spur will reduce that risk but not necessarily eliminate it. Keep an eye on that and be prepared to separate an injured female because the others might kill her by pecking a raw bleeding wound. If one gets cut I'd be tempted to separate the boys from the girls, at least for a while.

 

[MNchickaroo]

April 4th of last year was when they arrived as 72 hour-old chicks...so they're almost a year old. At what age does a cockerel become a rooster? And yes, they do have favorites...or anyway, hens that don't seem to care what happens, and then there's others who avoid/watch for the roosters.
I learned really quickly when I ordered a SR and ended up with an almost 1:1 ratio of cockerels to pullets, what too many roosters looks like! There wasn't a second of peace, bloody birds and the hens hid in the woods, which is not a great scenerio. Solved almost instantly when 9 roosters were processed.
These roosters were kept because one was the boss, didn't steal from the hens, and calmed way down compared to the others. He could also be the poster boy for SLW's, a great looking, well filled out bird. And the other was kept because he was my "buddy", and would always run up to see me, and super, super timid. They do keep a pretty good eye out, and sound an alarm if there's something around that's not supposed to be...the hens are usually too busy foraging to notice.
I'll try the trimming ideas (thank you!) and if those don't work, one of them will have to be removed. Thanks again!

 

[centrarchid]

Couple options come to mind. First is to pen one rooster away from balance of birds so roosters are not competing by who can mate the most often. Second is to reduce time a rooster has with hens where rooster(s) penned separately from hens much of the time. Roosters could be put in with hens every third day.

 

[aart]

It's spring, everyone wants to boogie!!
I'd get rid of one, or both, males.

 

[Mrs. K]

I have found that bareback hens bother people more than it bothers chickens. That some hens are much more prone to this than others hens in the same pen. If it bothers you, then make sure you only hatch eggs from the feathered birds if you can.

2 roosters to ten birds, is a lot of roosters, more than needed. And roosters, in my opinion take more space than hens. I think you might have more tension in your flock than you realize, and if you removed a rooster, everyone else would relax. Tension in a flock comes on slowly, the first time it happened to me, I had a weasel help me out. Very upsetting to me, but I noticed in my much diminished flock, the tension was gone, they were much more relaxed, less commotion. That is the number of full size birds, I kept in that set up from there on.

A lot depends on how much space you have, and if there are multiple hideouts in the run, with platforms, and roosts in the run, can allow birds to get away from each other. Sometimes that helps.

I often recommend that people wanting to try a rooster, look for a rooster like yours, close to a year old, and who is so nice that no one culled them. You might try advertising it that way. A rooster getting to be a year old, is generally getting to the point of being worthwhile as a predator alert, and keeping peace with the hens.

Mrs K

 

[MNchickaroo]

Thanks everyone!
Except for when it drops below 25 degrees (I have discovered that some of them won't go in until the sun goes down, no matter the temperature and then frostbite occurs, we're located in central MN) these are very much free-range birds. Now that it's spring, and the hens have more space outside and hiding spots should the treading decrease? Or because it's spring, will it increase?
Hatching out own chicks is not on the agenda, so mostly roosters are for flock aesthetics and warning systems for the hens. There is an option for separating out the roosters, we have a chicken tractor (in addition to our coop), but I don't want to do that indefinitely which is why I'm wondering if the treading will go away eventually, or are these guys ready all year long??
Will the trimming help at all, or would it be fruitless? Unfortunately, I do have to do something, the talons leave marks/gouges on the skin, and I can't have featherless birds in MN...that down parka is too useful. (And I did have one of the ladies get her back frostbit...one of those that didn't go inside when the temp dropped).
Overall...from what I'm hearing...getting rid of one (or both) males is the best option. I did like the option of advertising for a nice rooster. If I find a home for him, how many hens should there be so he won't de-feather some else's flock??

 

[Ridgerunner]

If I find a home for him, how many hens should there be so he won't de-feather some else's flock??

Some people have 25 hens, one rooster, and some de-feathered hens. Some people keep one rooster with one or two hens and they are not de-feathered. There is a lot more to it than just numbers.

 

[chickens really]

The bare ones are the favourites. That won't change.
You could always free range all summer and then lock the Roosters in a separate pen for the fall/winter.