Turkeys For 2013

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I have a narraganset turkey girl. She lays down when my daughter passes by her. She needs a boy. Obviously she figured that my daughter is small and would not splatter her if she lays on top of her so she did not pick me or my teen daughter but my smallest, 8 years old daughter to get the business done.
Poor thing! it makes me wonder what is she thinking?
I have no tom and the rooster does not want to do the job or does not get the hint...I do not know. So I have to buy eggs and replace hers which by all means will be unfertile. If youre selling narraganset eggs, let me know.
 
I am not sure why my MW got so big. I thought he was going to stay small.I bought him from a lady that told me he was a royal palm.
idunno.gif

I sold him the day before thanksgiving with one of my Narri's. DH said we will get some more come spring he wants some larger birds and some Bourbon Reds and I would like a few more Narri's. We are going to buy poults since I don't have any luck hatching them...

Chickadoodles, if the lady you got him from thought he was a Royal Palm, there is a good chance he isn't even a MW, he could be a Beltsville Small White or even a White Holland. On another poultry forum, Brian Decker, APA judge and breeder of Beltsville Small Whites, had this to say about the MW:

~~As with many things written by the ALBC there are huge inaccuracies in their description of the Midget White and it's story. The are only marginally smaller that a Beltsville Small White and not near as broad in the breast. They can never become a Standard variety in the APA because there is very little difference between the two. I had Midget Whites straight from eggs supplied by the University of Wisconsin in the late 90's. In my opinion they are not as good a market turkey as a Beltsville. If one has them and wants to show you would show them as Beltsvilles and if they are in good condition one may well win the class with them. Midgets were research turkeys. When I received my Midget eggs from Ron Keen from the UW he stated that they were on an all in all out program and had at that time had 27 generations in 27 years. He stated that about all they culled for was too big or too small. Brian Decker APA/ABA judge Read more: http://showbirdbid.proboards.com/thread/2948/midget-whites#ixzz2mBJNxnOm\

also he said:

~~I believe there are many fewer pure Beltsville's than there are pure Midgets if you are talking DNA. In the APA we have a Small White turkey called a Beltsville Small White that is in our Standard and as long as your turkey meets the Beltsville APA standard for type and color in the exhibition hall it is as pure as snow. They can never get Midget Whites into the standard because there is almost no discernible difference. I can talk with a little experience since I had Midgets in the 90's that I hatched from eggs sent to me from the University of Wisconsin. I now breed Beltsville's that as far as I can determine are pure Beltsville's that originated from the Beltsville flock that was at the University of Ontario in ca. The difference is very small. I believe the Belts have slightly better bodies than the Midgets had and being a born again carnivore that means something to me. If people want to show a Small White Turkey in a show with an APA sanction they SHOULD just write Beltsville Small White on their turkey entry blank Brian Decker Read more: http://showbirdbid.proboards.com/thread/2948/midget-whites#ixzz2mBK5y5Y9

~~The ALBC blurb about Midgets is full of inaccuracies. One, the Midgets that I hatched from eggs straight from the research flock at the University of Wisconsin weren't near as small as the weights that are attributed to them. They weren't bred to be a Bantam Turkey they were bred to be a research turkey and smaller size meant less cost to the University. At the time I got the eggs Ron Keen stated that the culling of each years young birds kept for breeders was basically rejecting those that were too big or too Small. Secondly we always need to read in our APA Standard the front of the book as well as the specifics under the breed. 2010 APA Standard page 30 where it states "under standard" Read C. there is no cut for underweight in Belts. On page 33 under the heading "weights" it states that the twenty % under weight disqualification rule doesn't apply to Belts. Also in the first column on page 30 under " C breaking ties" it states in number 4 and 5 when talking about breaking ties It states that in Belts the smaller specimen wins. In 1997 at the Combined APA/ABA National at Columbus Ohio I won a prize for Best White Turkey. I was showing a Midget young tom that I had entered as a Beltsville Small White. If you want to show your Midgets it is the only way unless you want to show them as a NON Standard Breed and then they only compete against Midgets and can't be judged for Best and Reserve Turkey. Brian Decker Read more: http://showbirdbid.proboards.com/thread/2948/midget-whites#ixzz2mBKXBsY4
 
I am not sure why my MW got so big. I thought he was going to stay small.I bought him from a lady that told me he was a royal palm.
idunno.gif

I sold him the day before thanksgiving with one of my Narri's. DH said we will get some more come spring he wants some larger birds and some Bourbon Reds and I would like a few more Narri's. We are going to buy poults since I don't have any luck hatching them...
As I have been reading the MW has palm in them actually palm x BBW. THe belts ville is a combo of 4 other turkys in cluding the White Holland, which I think is the progenator of the BBW.

I have a narraganset turkey girl. She lays down when my daughter passes by her. She needs a boy. Obviously she figured that my daughter is small and would not splatter her if she lays on top of her so she did not pick me or my teen daughter but my smallest, 8 years old daughter to get the business done.
Poor thing! it makes me wonder what is she thinking?
I have no tom and the rooster does not want to do the job or does not get the hint...I do not know. So I have to buy eggs and replace hers which by all means will be unfertile. If youre selling narraganset eggs, let me know.
ANd I have two toms and no girl. So no eggs here. Sorry.
 
Chickadoodles, if the lady you got him from thought he was a Royal Palm, there is a good chance he isn't even a MW, he could be a Beltsville Small White or even a White Holland. On another poultry forum, Brian Decker, APA judge and breeder of Beltsville Small Whites, had this to say about the MW:

~~As with many things written by the ALBC there are huge inaccuracies in their description of the Midget White and it's story. The are only marginally smaller that a Beltsville Small White and not near as broad in the breast. They can never become a Standard variety in the APA because there is very little difference between the two. I had Midget Whites straight from eggs supplied by the University of Wisconsin in the late 90's. In my opinion they are not as good a market turkey as a Beltsville. If one has them and wants to show you would show them as Beltsvilles and if they are in good condition one may well win the class with them. Midgets were research turkeys. When I received my Midget eggs from Ron Keen from the UW he stated that they were on an all in all out program and had at that time had 27 generations in 27 years. He stated that about all they culled for was too big or too small. Brian Decker APA/ABA judge Read more: http://showbirdbid.proboards.com/thread/2948/midget-whites#ixzz2mBJNxnOm\

also he said:

~~I believe there are many fewer pure Beltsville's than there are pure Midgets if you are talking DNA. In the APA we have a Small White turkey called a Beltsville Small White that is in our Standard and as long as your turkey meets the Beltsville APA standard for type and color in the exhibition hall it is as pure as snow. They can never get Midget Whites into the standard because there is almost no discernible difference. I can talk with a little experience since I had Midgets in the 90's that I hatched from eggs sent to me from the University of Wisconsin. I now breed Beltsville's that as far as I can determine are pure Beltsville's that originated from the Beltsville flock that was at the University of Ontario in ca. The difference is very small. I believe the Belts have slightly better bodies than the Midgets had and being a born again carnivore that means something to me. If people want to show a Small White Turkey in a show with an APA sanction they SHOULD just write Beltsville Small White on their turkey entry blank Brian Decker Read more: http://showbirdbid.proboards.com/thread/2948/midget-whites#ixzz2mBK5y5Y9

~~The ALBC blurb about Midgets is full of inaccuracies. One, the Midgets that I hatched from eggs straight from the research flock at the University of Wisconsin weren't near as small as the weights that are attributed to them. They weren't bred to be a Bantam Turkey they were bred to be a research turkey and smaller size meant less cost to the University. At the time I got the eggs Ron Keen stated that the culling of each years young birds kept for breeders was basically rejecting those that were too big or too Small. Secondly we always need to read in our APA Standard the front of the book as well as the specifics under the breed. 2010 APA Standard page 30 where it states "under standard" Read C. there is no cut for underweight in Belts. On page 33 under the heading "weights" it states that the twenty % under weight disqualification rule doesn't apply to Belts. Also in the first column on page 30 under " C breaking ties" it states in number 4 and 5 when talking about breaking ties It states that in Belts the smaller specimen wins. In 1997 at the Combined APA/ABA National at Columbus Ohio I won a prize for Best White Turkey. I was showing a Midget young tom that I had entered as a Beltsville Small White. If you want to show your Midgets it is the only way unless you want to show them as a NON Standard Breed and then they only compete against Midgets and can't be judged for Best and Reserve Turkey. Brian Decker Read more: http://showbirdbid.proboards.com/thread/2948/midget-whites#ixzz2mBKXBsY4
The lady that sold me the MW only sold the MW's and white hollands. She had advertised RP's is why I ordered them from her. But did not get them. I wondered for a long time if he was a white holland or a MW but he stayed a little smaller than my Narris. So I assumed he had to be a MW. Because a WH would be larger than our Narri's.

I do appreciate your info so much. I read the links you posted and I like the fact that the judge showed a MW as a Beltsville. lol I may try to get some RP next year.
Thank you for sharing all of this with me. I have learned not to buy from these fly by night so called breeders on Facebook. As both of the breeders sold me turkey and birds that were not anything they were supposed to be. The other turkey I bought was supposed to me a black spanish and she has markings like a royal palm on her tail. So she is mixed. UGH. And I paid full price for two and one died the day I bought it.
 
I have a narraganset turkey girl. She lays down when my daughter passes by her. She needs a boy. Obviously she figured that my daughter is small and would not splatter her if she lays on top of her so she did not pick me or my teen daughter but my smallest, 8 years old daughter to get the business done.
Poor thing! it makes me wonder what is she thinking?
I have no tom and the rooster does not want to do the job or does not get the hint...I do not know. So I have to buy eggs and replace hers which by all means will be unfertile. If youre selling narraganset eggs, let me know.
I only have one Narri hen and she is only 4 months old. So it will be awhile before she will lay eggs. Sorry wish I could help.
 
Thanks for the links dm. Some very interesting opinions on that thread. Now I'm curious to find some BSWs to see if I can see any difference, but it appears that it'd be hard to find guareenteed pure ones. And I'm not about to run DNA tests just because I'm curious. lol. It's pretty amazing to me that two breeds can be developed from completely different parent stock & genetics, and yet end up so similar... even being shown as the same breed and judges not being able to tell the difference.

In my own very limited experience with MWs, I'd have to agree with Mr. Decker about the weight discrepancies. I do question however, if they really were designed simply to be a small, and therefore less expensive, research turkey (according to Keen/Decker) or if that's just what the U of W used them for when they took over the flock from U of MA? Everything else I've read suggests U of MA purposefully developed them for the market as a small table bird. I wonder if either university still has their records or published their research? If the ALBC story is as inaccurate as Mr. Decker suggests, that may be the only way to correct the facts.
 
Quote: THe MW show under the Beltsville because they fit the profile.

We don't have a turkey thread that brings in the judges for comment or recommendations. Sure wish we did. Lots of turkeys at the Boston show this year-- far more than 2 yrs ago. GO turkeys!!

Getting good stock is dificult even among the large fowl-- helps to get recommendations from an APA judge or master breeder. Looks like you have a good grip on the breed to recognize the subtlies.
 
Quote: THe MW show under the Beltsville because they fit the profile.

We don't have a turkey thread that brings in the judges for comment or recommendations. Sure wish we did. Lots of turkeys at the Boston show this year-- far more than 2 yrs ago. GO turkeys!!

Getting good stock is dificult even among the large fowl-- helps to get recommendations from an APA judge or master breeder. Looks like you have a good grip on the breed to recognize the subtlies.
X2

That thread did offer some good leads where one might be able to find good BSW stock. Could be very useful. :)
 
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http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/history-midget-white-turkey.aspx

While muddling over this article again, I looked at who the authors of the article are. Wentworth and Smith Jr, them selves, 2 people that were prominant in the devleopment of the MW. Looks like smallness is very important. Getting to the size of narrigansett would be too big, based on my Narri toms. ANd I have to admit the very large breast area is a plus in my book. ANd I would be temped to grow one strain to be big.
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hahaha... And I've been looking at Celie's massive White Hollands for the same reason. A few godzilla birds would be fun at the holidays. :)

Great article by the originators. Fabulous info. Especially towards the end where they detail how they selected to improve size and breast. Feed conversion was interesting as well. Definitely seems like a project to keep the breed from backsliding.

From the mid ’70s on, selection pressure was maintained to fix tom body weight to about 13 pounds and hens at about 8 pounds. About every third year, breast meat volume was included as selection index in addition to body weight. Wentworth selected annually for higher egg production, fertility and hatchability. The hatchability averaged about 80 percent when the flock was dispersed. The original stock Wentworth obtained did not lay very well, averaging only about 30 or 40 eggs during a breeding season.

Currently the midgets lay 60 to 80 eggs per year. The eggs are quite large and appear similar to the eggs laid by the large broadbreasted lines of turkeys; they weigh only 3 to 5 grams less. The midget white turkey has the appearance of a miniature of the large commercial white line, for it has a very broad breast. This is not a commercially economically important meat bird, as Wentworth estimates the feed conversion is about 4 pounds of feed per pound of weight gain.
 
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