Turkeys not breeding need advice

[Dragon Lady]

Update:
Yesterday my Tom actually managed to get up on top, balance and stomp around for awhile but no penetration cause she didn't squawk. Once he got off of her it was quite entertaining because she started strutting her stuff trying to convince him she was male and he actually almost believed it and was going to challenge her to a fight. Silly turkeys but at least they are getting closer to doing the deed.

Awesome! she was displaying for him! Mine have both done that too. She is showing off for him. I should think things will happen in due course.

Both of my hens just went broody. One is stashing eggs somewhere and the other is sitting on 3 eggs in a hollow under a maple tree. They are really clever at hiding the existence of the nests lol

hang on in there, it could all happen yet ;-) my Tom was only hatched on 30th sept last year ;-)

 

[Saskfarmgirl]

That is good to know. I thought it was her way of trying to tell him she's not on the market. Funny thing is her name is Tommy because as a young poult she would always strut her stuff so we thought she was male. So we had to name our Tom Gonzo like the muppet.

 

[Dragon Lady]

That is good to know. I thought it was her way of trying to tell him she's not on the market. Funny thing is her name is Tommy because as a young poult she would always strut her stuff so we thought she was male. So we had to name our Tom Gonzo like the muppet.

They sound adorable lol

 

[Saskfarmgirl]

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It's official they did the deed. She has hatched out two little poults so far!

 

[Dragon Lady]

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It's official they did the deed. She has hatched out two little poults so far!

oh how sweet! Congratulations!

 

[chooks4life]

I notice you've achieved getting poults from them, however I still thought I would add a little general information.
Quote: Domestic turkeys include breeds too large to mate naturally.

When she shrieks, it's often because she's hurt. It has nothing to do with a successful mating. But often a clumsy male takes that long to mate that she's out of breath and in pain by the time he manages. A good tom is one who can get the job done quickly. Some just sit on top of her, crushing her. These ones are often responsible for dead hens. Just because she doesn't seem outwardly injured doesn't mean he didn't just crack a rib. The shriek you mentioned can occur at any time but with most of my turkey's successful matings, it never occurs.

Quote: It's not his nails. It's most likely either his weight or a previous injury sustained while trying to mate that's discouraged her. Even experienced hens are sometimes averse to having to go through the crushing. Some folks solve this by only breeding the equivalent of teenage toms, not at their adult weight, while others buy saddles. Commercial breeders use either saddles or artificial insemination for the most part. I breed bantam turkeys with full size ones, so the females cope better with even mature toms.

Quote: If she displayed at him, she was most likely hurt and angry. The normal response to a successful mating is to shake her feathers and walk off.

The shrieking does not indicate penetration, because turkeys have no penis. No penetration occurs. If they didn't reach the point where his tail was under hers, no mating occurred. The longer he stomps on her and fails to achieve mating, the more likely he is to kill her in the attempt. However young males are often quite clumsy, and on the bright side he's not at his full weight yet.

Quote: It is normal for male and female poults to take turns displaying at one another. One will crouch, the other will mount, they mate like adults, but of course without viable sperm, and then the one that played hen will get up and play male, and the one that played male will sit down and play hen, and so it goes. Sex role play is normal to turkeys and chickens with any serious instincts retained from their ancestors.

 

[Dragon Lady]

I notice you've achieved getting poults from them, however I still thought I would add a little general information.
Domestic turkeys include breeds too large to mate naturally.

When she shrieks, it's often because she's hurt. It has nothing to do with a successful mating. But often a clumsy male takes that long to mate that she's out of breath and in pain by the time he manages. A good tom is one who can get the job done quickly. Some just sit on top of her, crushing her. These ones are often responsible for dead hens. Just because she doesn't seem outwardly injured doesn't mean he didn't just crack a rib. The shriek you mentioned can occur at any time but with most of my turkey's successful matings, it never occurs.

It's not his nails. It's most likely either his weight or a previous injury sustained while trying to mate that's discouraged her. Even experienced hens are sometimes averse to having to go through the crushing. Some folks solve this by only breeding the equivalent of teenage toms, not at their adult weight, while others buy saddles. Commercial breeders use either saddles or artificial insemination for the most part. I breed bantam turkeys with full size ones, so the females cope better with even mature toms.

If she displayed at him, she was most likely hurt and angry. The normal response to a successful mating is to shake her feathers and walk off.

The shrieking does not indicate penetration, because turkeys have no penis. No penetration occurs. If they didn't reach the point where his tail was under hers, no mating occurred. The longer he stomps on her and fails to achieve mating, the more likely he is to kill her in the attempt. However young males are often quite clumsy, and on the bright side he's not at his full weight yet.

It is normal for male and female poults to take turns displaying at one another. One will crouch, the other will mount, they mate like adults, but of course without viable sperm, and then the one that played hen will get up and play male, and the one that played male will sit down and play hen, and so it goes. Sex role play is normal to turkeys and chickens with any serious instincts retained from their ancestors.

Thanks for your rather aggressive tone :-/ your info is of course appreciated. No-one likes to be made to feel like they are an inadequate owner.

My tom has now matured a little - he will be one year old on Sept 29th! He now gets his business done in a prompt manner with minimal damage. the hens both shriek when being mated. If I noticed any sign of injury in any of my birds I would separate her from the tom immediately. I'm hoping that others would make the same decision.

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: I'm sorry, no aggressive tone was intended. What was it that made it sound that way? Or what should I have added to make it sound conversational? My intent is not to make anyone feel like an inadequate owner, we're all learners.

Edit:
Quote: Everyone would do the same, I reckon, but unfortunately some harm is pretty common with a full sized tom mating with a hen, and often you can't see the harm that's been done.

 

[Celie]

I'm sorry, no aggressive tone was intended. What was it that made it sound that way? Or what should I have added to make it sound conversational? My intent is not to make anyone feel like an inadequate owner, we're all learners.

Edit:
Everyone would do the same, I reckon, but unfortunately some harm is pretty common with a full sized tom mating with a hen, and often you can't see the harm that's been done.

I, for one, appreciated the to the point, no frills way you answered. Yes, we are all learning, but we don't have to lose a hen, in the process, when we can learn from one another, before it comes to that. I thought, by putting my more mature, heavier males with my females, I would be getting better genetics, and 2 of my 15 hens got injured! Thanks for the advise! From now on, I will use only toms at 9 to 12 months old. 3 more toms will be going to freezer camp this winter. I have large flock, but as summer progressed, for a while got fewer fertile eggs. Now, I know why! Thanks again!

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: You're welcome. Glad I didn't offend everyone.

I get my best offspring from my mature or middle aged females, personally, and try to match them with middle aged/mature males too. With turkeys this is an issue sometimes. I think you would be getting better genetics, but the risks can deprive you of other good genetics, i.e. if you lose a hen. Saddles for turkeys have a hard structure in them, not that I've used them, but I do always remain on hand to remove the male if she starts shrieking and he just keeps sitting on her doing nothing. It's a catch-22 with turkeys. I hope some knowledgeable person breeds comparatively bigger females or smaller males, because I've yet to get a crop of chicks from young parents that grew up into breed-worthy males and females. .

There are bantam turkeys too, which I've been exploring, and I've found all it means is that the legs are shorter; the body is the same size. Not sure if this is how they're meant to be but the ones I've bred from were like that.

I often wonder why male turkeys get heavy enough to endanger the possibilities of passing on their genes. Maybe, like elephants, the male is not meant to put his whole weight on the female? I read that chicken turkey hybrids were most often produced by bantam hens with fully grown turkey toms --- made possible because the male did not stand on her, but stood with his legs either side of her. It's possible then, (theoretically) that our turkeys are doing it wrong. Maybe in the wild the originals did not stand on top of the hen to mate, though I've not heard such reports from those who have seen or kept wild turkeys. I notice with my poultry that much of their behavior towards females is inherited though. I am minded to produce real bantam turkeys, since if chicken bantams are anything to go by, if it worked it would be the same amount of meat or close to it, just with less bone, and they'd flesh easily at any age. Just an idea right now, I've not taken steps towards it.