Understanding Genetics

[Knighstar679]

I am using the genetics calculator online and looking at a possible breeding that I might have going on in some eggs with my Black east Indie Eggs.

So the Hen would be a Black East Indie and the Drake could be one of two drakes on this test set. Either my Black East Indie which would make life easy or it could be Courage a Welsh Harliquin that would make life hard and tricky. It is the harliquin paring I am looking at right now.

So the calculator is saying the offspring would be
Male
mdmd Li+lih Ee+ bl+bl+ C+C+ B+B+ r+r+ D+d Bu+Bu+
Black Self

Female Reads
mdmd Li+lih Ee+ bl+bl+ C+C+ B+B+ r+r+ d- Bu+-
Chocolate

Does this mean all female ducklings from this would be chocolate in color? Or is there an off chance that there would be Black females in there as well? This is my first time really playing with this calculator and trying to really understand it.

 

[Isaac 0]

@Pyxis

 

[nao57]

It is an interesting topic. I know that genetics can be a tricky and fickle thing.

I remember reading in Hollreads book that how we got the Australian Spotted was due to genetic flukes where mules were able to breed. His estimate was like one in a 100 ducklings that were pintail ducks mixed with mallard where able to do this or something like that. So i understand outliers but know they are extremely rare to.

My goal isn't to get the random ducklings through I would like the black east indie, but lets face it I am not sure who my little female decided to fertilize her eggs with as she has been frisky with both males.

This is a totally cool project! I want to encourage you on it.

I'm somewhat interested in trying to find a way to get all black or all white runner ducks myself. Some people have them.

Its so interesting! So I want your project to work! Go ahead! Please try and be successful!

 

[Pyxis]

Would that chocolate color be dominant over multiple generations?

like if I took that female and bred her back to a black East Indi would the result be the same Or would it have a greater chance of getting a black female then?

i am going to guess that if I took two that hatch out of that clutch and bred them together that I could then end up with a chocolate male as he then could get two of the chocolate genes?

No, chocolate is sex linked recessive. If you breed a chocolate female to a black male, all the ducklings will be black. All the males will be split to chocolate, though, and will produce female chocolate ducklings.

Yes, breeding two siblings from the first cross together would produce chocolate bibbed males too. It would also produce a ton of other things too. Chocolate bibbed in both genders, black bibbed in both genders, self chocolate and self black, nutmeg, snowy, gold phase snowy, mallard, dusky mallard, khaki, dusky snowy and dusky gold phase snowy but I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference from regular snowies...I think that's all of them.

 

[Pyxis]

Is this welsh harlequin a pure welsh harlequin? If so, I'm not sure where that dusky gene is coming from on his end such that the offspring are inheriting two, because welsh harlequins aren't dusky.

Also, is this a gold phase welsh harlequin? If yes, the calculator is right, the ducklings will be sex linked. If he's silver phase, nope that's wrong and there's no chocolate involved.

 

[Knighstar679]

Is this welsh harlequin a pure welsh harlequin? If so, I'm not sure where that dusky gene is coming from on his end such that the offspring are inheriting two, because welsh harlequins aren't dusky.

Also, is this a gold phase welsh harlequin? If yes, the calculator is right, the ducklings will be sex linked. If he's silver phase, nope that's wrong and there's no chocolate involved.

yes he is a pure welsh he actually came from show lines. So he should be pure welsh for many many generations. As for which phase welsh he is I always have issues telling on the males but I am thinking he is a gold. As he looks just like the typical pictures of a welsh which are usually gold phase.

interesting that I can get sex linked ducklings though.

 

[Knighstar679]

Well the way they teach it in biology in high school it would depend on if the color you want is dominant or not. If its dominant, then in the high school version, 3 out of 4 would have that dominant color, and the 4th wouldn't (assuming one parent isn't the same color.)

This would be like Domincant color D mixed with recessive color d of other parent.

But it can get tricky because there's things that can happen.

What if the grandparents aren't all the same as the parents, plays into it? What if grandparents are different colors? (This is kind of like how the other person before asked in a different way.) What if there's mutations? What if there's sub-colors that are either dominant or recessive?

If grandparents are AA and Aa, then the parent could have been one offspring like; AA, AA, AA, or Aa. This would then combine with the other parent. (So you can see that tracking the grandparents would come into play.)

And that's assuming the grandparents had a standard dominant line...which might not be the case. They could have been Aa, Aa, or Aa mixed with aa, or even aa mixed with aa. Lots of combinations are possible without even considering secondary minor colors like streaks in the wings etc.

See where there's so many unknowns?

It becomes too hard to know exactly. You kind of have to track multiple generations to have an idea how it would go. But even then there'd be errors.

This is why when Mendelian Genetics is used, the guy who discovered it had to do multiple generations of the flowers he used. (I think it was poppies.)

But then there's what if reptile and bird DNA follows different patterns than what humans are aware of. (Ever wonder about this? They do a few things different I think.)

Well, sorry I wasn't more helpful. I am interested in this topic like you. And I think its neat you are trying to figure it out. I didn't meant to not use the same model as you, but I had to go with what I'd been taught in school and remembered.

It is an interesting topic. I know that genetics can be a tricky and fickle thing.

I remember reading in Hollreads book that how we got the Australian Spotted was due to genetic flukes where mules were able to breed. His estimate was like one in a 100 ducklings that were pintail ducks mixed with mallard where able to do this or something like that. So i understand outliers but know they are extremely rare to.

My goal isn't to get the random ducklings through I would like the black east indie, but lets face it I am not sure who my little female decided to fertilize her eggs with as she has been frisky with both males.

 

[Pyxis]

yes he is a pure welsh he actually came from show lines. So he should be pure welsh for many many generations. As for which phase welsh he is I always have issues telling on the males but I am thinking he is a gold. As he looks just like the typical pictures of a welsh which are usually gold phase.

interesting that I can get sex linked ducklings though.

Then the offspring won't be dusky They'll be split to it, getting one copy from their mother, but no copy from their father. So, what you would expect in terms of duckling colors is black bibbed males and chocolate bibbed females.

 

[Knighstar679]

No, chocolate is sex linked recessive. If you breed a chocolate female to a black male, all the ducklings will be black. All the males will be split to chocolate, though, and will produce female chocolate ducklings.

Yes, breeding two siblings from the first cross together would produce chocolate bibbed males too. It would also produce a ton of other things too. Chocolate bibbed in both genders, black bibbed in both genders, self chocolate and self black, nutmeg, snowy, gold phase snowy, mallard, dusky mallard, khaki, dusky snowy and dusky gold phase snowy but I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference from regular snowies...I think that's all of them.

oh wow that’s a lot of things that could be produced in the second generation.

 

[Knighstar679]

Yeah, so if you want to keep things neat and headed towards a specific color, best not to cross those siblings, haha. It's just a lot of genes that are all getting tossed together from that first cross, and in the second cross the all have the chance to come together.

So my other question is what size will that end up. Will they be more East Indie size in between the two, closer to welsh size?

Though it could be interesting to see all those colors in East Indie size.