Unemployment almost 10% nationally

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

OK! Last time ---

http://rwer.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/greenspan-friedman-and-summers-win-dynamite-prize-in-economics/

 

[Organics North]

ivan3[url :

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/262_earth_lights1.jpg[/URL]

Wow look at those lights in northern Alaska on the oil fields...

I like the map that shows the camp fires, Africa is a glow on that one.

THanks for the link IHWIMY
ON​

 

[rufus]

For what it is worth, I see where the Chinese are buying a stake in General Motors. It is only a matter of time until they own the whole ball of wax and probably Chrysler also. Looks like auto manufacturing will be over in the US.

Acquiring these companies will give them patents and designs they never would have otherwise. Technology developed in the US and then discarded here is still usable there. They produce coal fire railroad equipment designed in the 1920's in the US, Britain and Germany. It still works for them because they are not crippled by the EPA. When the choice is between clean air and food, food wins out.

The 1932 Buick is a perfectly acceptable car to a good part of this world.

They also would get a bonanza of information about defense issues by buying these auto firms.

And as a side comment, to those of you in love with the socialist system you need only look to Cuba. I don't see anyone risking their lives on leaky rafts trying to get in to that workers' paradise. No, it is the other way around.

For my part, I choose not to live in the workers' paradise.

Rufus

PS. Has anyone heard from Little Chicken Racing team since he went to Cuba?

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
Is Cuba Socialist? I always thought they were Communist. That's ok, lots of people don't know what Socialism is.

Don't forget Ford. The only reason they didn't need a bailout was because they had gotten a huge loan the year before the recession officially started. Yes as a matter of fact China owns Hummer now last time I heard.

Yes that darned EPA. Holding us back from totally destroying the environment. You might try to remember that America is the only country that owns an average of 2 .3 cars per family. Could you imagine what our air would be like if we still had 1960's exhaust emissions or the smoke belching out of all the factories that they used to have. Oh let's not forget the factories dumping toxic waste in to all the rivers.

That's what China does. They don't have that pesky EPA and they have deformed babies galore along with millions of people dying from toxin induced cancers. Of course since they are a dictatorship they don't allow camera crews in to film it all. Remember how our Olympic teams wore mask during their time in China? It's not a choice between clean air or food. It's clean air or that green stuff called money. You can't eat money and it won't be too long before they can't breathe their air over there.

Of course it's probably just Al Gore making it up. I'll shut up now. Inconvenient truths tend to get some people upset.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
Is Cuba Socialist? I always though they were Communist.

I'll shut up now. Inconvenient truths tend to get some people upset.

Cuba is Communist NOT Socialist...

Regardless They have health care that we do not.. Also it is my strong opinion that the primary reason people occasionally try to escape is because they became desperate criminals because of the OPPRESSION..... You ask who's oppression?????????? Well the United States of America's embargo on the country is what keeps them down... Not the Dictator..

Using Cuba as an example of Socialism, and then blaming their political system on their hard times, when our embargo hurts the people of Cuba more than the dictator... Gets under my skin..

I think modern communism in places like Venezuela and Cuba are interesting to watch and learn from... They are not the failed form of Russia.

Dunkopf,
I kind of like that Inconvenient truth gets under some peoples skin...

Generally the truth does that..

ON

 

[Dunkopf]

Wasn't Obama going to try to drop that embargo BS? He doesn't need Congressional approval for that does he?

Why do we still have an embargo on them anyway.

 

[Royd]

Quote:
Is Cuba Socialist? I always though they were Communist.

I'll shut up now. Inconvenient truths tend to get some people upset.

Cuba is Communist NOT Socialist...

Regardless They have health care that we do not.. Also it is my strong opinion that the primary reason people occasionally try to escape is because they became desperate criminals because of the OPPRESSION..... You ask who's oppression?????????? Well the United States of America's embargo on the country is what keeps them down... Not the Dictator..

Using Cuba as an example of Socialism, and then blaming their political system on their hard times, when our embargo hurts the people of Cuba more than the dictator... Gets under my skin..

I think modern communism in places like Venezuela and Cuba are interesting to watch and learn from... They are not the failed form of Russia.

Dunkopf,
I kind of like that Inconvenient truth gets under some peoples skin...

Generally the truth does that..

ON

Pray tell, what would Cuba do, if there were no US with an embargo?....They are an island paradise, with a year round growing season. Isn't it amazing, that now, Cuba just dumped 500,000 govt. jobs, because there's noone left to tax, to support them. And here we are, pushing govt. jobs as the be all, end all....Go figure. Just curious, why are you such an apologist for the socialist/ communist/ govt. control systems?

BTW, Chavez is a property/ business stealing thug.

 

[ivan3]

rufus wrote: For what it is worth, I see where the Chinese are buying a stake in General Motors. It is only a matter of time until they own the whole ball of wax and probably Chrysler also. Looks like auto manufacturing will be over in the US.

Acquiring these companies will give them patents and designs they never would have otherwise. Technology developed in the US and then discarded here is still usable there. They produce coal fire railroad equipment designed in the 1920's in the US, Britain and Germany. It still works for them because they are not crippled by the EPA. When the choice is between clean air and food, food wins out.

You've got to consider that our trading partner is simply taking a page from our book. They'd probably be a little more aggressive if we didn't have ballistic missile subs scattered here and there. We didn't pull any punches when we ruled the waves (think Admirial Dewey - Hawaii and the Phillipines - heck, Commodore Perry in Japan - various Gens. in Mexico and Cent. America).

Guess I'll just quote one of the most decorated Marines in the history of the Corp., Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler who, in his later years, I consider insanely isolationist. There is no denying that he was on the ground as it happened:

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

I believe Q9 rails against government subsidies. There is no more crass government `handout' to business than spilling American blood for a profit, this is why our not getting off the foreign energy teat is so galling to me - Alan Greenspan admitted that the Iraq War was primarily about securing oil, if we had made our move after the `73 embargo - Nixon, in his Operation Independence suggested building 1,000 integral fast reactors - we'd have had no troops stationed in Saudi Arabia for Osama to build a case against and the WTC would still be standing. Oil lobby has been pretty succcessful, yes? Without a well thought out Energy Policy (particularly as regards National Securtiy) there will be little profit for anyone.
I already posted about where complacency, greed and little appreciation of history takes us: https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=416489&p=14

Now, the majority of the Chinese population still live in what we consider to be poverty of the worst sort (not unlike India, ~800,000,000 living on .50 cents a day). They will use coal, or whatever else is available. They are very motivated; they are, indeed, `hungry'. The Chinese are leapfrogging ahead of us. Not because we're giving them a special favor (most Americans are more interested in consumption of cheap goods and entertainment - capitalist consumerism/their goods for our paper (a very dangerous game and I hope I'm not around for the `margin call'), but because they actually have a National Energy Policy (20yr. plan with teeth to sink into us) and are using our technology, that owing to special interests and the lack of science education (general public) in the U.S. has been pretty much mothballed, to take back the predominate position in the world that they first achieved a very long time ago (call `em `confuciuancommiecapitalists' ):

Coal fired locomotives my derriere:

That situation is changing slowly, partially driven by a Chinese nuclear construction program that will soon exceed the build rate that was achieved in the US during the first Atomic Age. Just a few years ago, the goal in China was to increase nuclear plant capacity from about 9 GWe to 40 GWe by 2020. The current plan will achieve that goal within the next five years and could hit a number closer to 80-120 GWe by 2020. The reactor construction and manufacturing enterprise will not suddenly stop at that level. As the construction continues, China could be operating 300-400 GWe of nuclear plant capacity by 2030. If history is any guide, that capacity should be operating at a capacity factor of 75-90%, displacing a tremendous quantity of fossil fuel consumption.

There are some devoted technologists in the US who are fanning the flames of interest in reactor systems that offer better fuel efficiency, but most of the established industrial and political leaders cannot be bothered to consider fast neutron systems like the IFR or in-core thermal conversion systems like the LFTR. The technologists often lament - at least on the email lists that I read regularly - that other countries are passing the United States by using technology that we developed and tested during our heyday of reactor development. It is not too late for the US to get back in the game. We still have a tremendous range of assets that can be applied to the task, but we cannot continue to wait if we want to capture any of the available market share.

http://atomicinsights.blogspot.com/2010/05/chinas-nuclear-program-moving-fast.html

Royd wrote: Pray tell, what would Cuba do, if there were no US with an embargo?....They are an island paradise, with a year round growing season. Isn't it amazing, that now, Cuba just dumped 500,000 govt. jobs, because there's noone left to tax, to support them. And here we are, pushing govt. jobs as the be all, end all....Go figure. Just curious, why are you such an apologist for the socialist/ communist/ govt. control systems?

You do know that Fidel Castro was scouted by the National Baseball League, don't you? CIA dropped that ball... he's since been pitching the Old Game that we introduced him to: "So far from God, so close to the United States!" and calling it what he likes... Of course it doesn't work. When it was functioning back in the late 19th Cent. we didn't care, we wanted to finish off the Spanish in order to take advantage of the Island Paradise ourselves... It was a nice place for our own puppet dictator and mobbed-up Casinos if I do say so myself...

ed:clarity​

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
Well, If we did not have an embargo the people would be better off! I do not give a rats behind about the dictator... It has been long enough.... I think the American elite that were booted out just want their resorts back. Spoiled rotten American wealthy, making Cuba suffer. After all we see that in China communism is waning.. Why, because of trade!!!! Modernization and technology do wonders in a peaceful way to do away with oppressive governments.
Enough of the embargo!

Socialism and Communism are not the same thing. I am an not an apologist for dictatorships... I find learning and studying systems like Chavez's as valuable and useful. No one has the answer for what works long term and what does not as far as economic models go.. So why not be open minded to learning about other systems, the good and the bad... I am no sheep that will be fed propaganda on how bad or broken another system is when ours in not really in better shape.

Now on to Socialism.... IF I say if, we had no government and no favoring of the elite and wealthy then the world would not need Socialism..

. Since human greed is innate, I feel protections and balancing by a government is needed. I see our approach ending with a handful of Rich and a whole country full of uneducated peasants. Decay and collapse then mindless revolution.

Europe is getting way ahead of us... The only reason they had an economic crisis is because when a giant like the US falls in the pond, the smaller economies get knocked around by the waves..

I worked for a very successful company from a Socialist country.... I saw the differences in detail, I lived the differences... I understand what Socialism in Europe is.... We better get on the bus soon, before it is too late.

As I said before I am open minded.. I am willing to give anything a try, if reducing government services, and giving more to the wealthy, helps close the gap on income disparity, our failing education system, and our embarrassing incredibly expensive health care system that gives us shorter life spans than almost any other first world nation... I am willing to try.

So Royd, You never answered my question on if you have ever been to or spent time in a country that has a Socialist system.. Canada or most of Europe come to mind..

ON

 

[newfoundland]

Dunkopf has it right in my book. The biggest enemy to our existence is the effects of pollution and global warming. The burning of fossil fuels contribute greatly to this. The greatest rewards of our century will go to those who develop an alternative fuel for cars and planes. We can't bury our heads in the sand over this issue, it threatens the very survival of future generations.

China is where US and Europe were fifty years ago. They are becoming a consumer led society and therefore a profitable potentional market for those with the wit to enter it. This can't be done by exporting your average car though, they can do this cheaper themselves. Their everyday textile industry can outsmart any in the world in my opinion, and no, so called, westernised nation can compete with their cheap mass produced goods. What they are increasingly hungry for is designer brands, elite products, class goods. Think of French couture and perfumes, national food products such as Scotch Whiskey etc. As economies evolve they go through the same process as we went through in the fifties and sixties.

It is no good us bemoaning the fact that they have taken over where we left off. The trick is to move on to the next stage which is I suppose a post consumerism where we buy less but better and mend and recycle. We have to understand the difference between a want and a need. Does anyone really need a TV in every room for example. We are encouraged by governments to decrease our energy use by turning down the central heating and making sure we have insulated our homes to reduce consumption. In our household we certainly do this. We also try to ration our petrol consumption by combining trips and only going out when we need to and making use of public transport where we can.

Recycling is big news here. We are issued with various coloured bins and sort our rubbish into recyclable and non recyclable. It is collected from the street and every month they post the figures of percentage of waste recycled in the area. Sometimes it is as high as 90 per cent. Imagine how this has reduced the amount of rubbish going into landfill sites.

I also agree with Organics North. I have lived under both Socialist and Conservative governments and have found neither to be so extreme that the fabric of the country was ever affected. I suppose the perceived wisdom here is that the Conservatives have always favoured the rich and big business and have traditionally received election funds from them. The Socialists have favoured 'the working man' and unions and have received their election expenses from that source. What we really need is a happy balance between the two and this is why we have elections. If either of them in power, goes one step too far, they loose the next election. We have a saying though, 'whoever wins the election, the government always gets in!' How true is this?