UPDATED: Multiple deaths. Help Needed

[casportpony]

@casportpony
 I'm not sure.  I can call the vet and ask.

Would this dosage be correct for one strength (but obviously not the other), or does it seem wrong for both strengths?

Haven't done the math for either yet, but I'm sure your vet probably did. Given what I know about baytril, seems many vets prescribe about 10mg/kg twice a day.

-Kathy

 

[ia02]

@casportpony at 10mg per kg of bird I should be dosing 8mg twice daily for a .8kg chicken. With Baytril 100 mg/ml strength that would be .08ml. Assuming it is Baytril 100 I am giving 1.6mg twice a day, which should be double the dosage you mentioned.

Unless I am doing my math wrong.

 

[ia02]

UPDATE: I had a quick conversation with the vet today. He said that the lab results came back today and that the tissue/blood sample taken from the chicken came back positive for Mareks. I am waiting on a follow up phone call. I plan to make sure this couldn't be a false positive as the chicks were supposed to have been vaccinated for Mareks.

I have noticed a few additional symptoms:

First, the facial swelling has increased somewhat but is still contained between the eye and the nostril.

Second, the droppings have turned smaller in size, and are looser, and bright green instead of gray.

Third, as of this morning the chicken seems to be tucking its head a bit more and is a trying to seem a little less coordinated while standing. This was a symptom of each of the deceased flock mates.

So, the question is: could each of these deaths have been caused by Marek's.

 

[Outpost JWB]

Yes. It very well could have. Also vaccination from Mareks does not mean they will not get it. Kind of like the "flu vaccination" for humans. It lessens the chances and makes the symptoms milder should we get the flu.

There are a lot of flocks out there that have birds in them with Mareks. If I were you, I'd educate myself on it. It spreads by dander in the feathers and once it's in your flock, it's there forever.

 

[karstenwhyte]

You might want to call the state usda to come out and run a test for avian influenza!

 

[ia02]

ANOTHER UPDATE: As of today the chicken is still alive and is showing signs of improvement. The swelling is mostly (or completely) gone. She does not seem to be sneezing anymore either. She is definitely still drinking and I believe she is eating too. I plan to observe her more closely tomorrow to see if she is just pecking at her food or actually successfully eating. Droppings are less watery, perhaps less green colored as well.

I plan to speak with my vet again tomorrow regarding the testing that diagnosed Mareks. I have done my reading on the disease and now I am wondering if the lab gave any indication as to what Mareks serotype was discovered. I am also going to try to contact the hatchery that the chicks came from to see if they will share what (or if) vaccine they used on the chicks. With this info I am trying to determine of there is any chance for a false positive result caused by the vaccine.

Frankly, I think the symptoms of MG, MS, Coryza and AI all fit better than Mareks. But then again all the info I have read makes it clear that symptoms are variable and that all or none of the typical symptoms may be present in Mareks cases.

The reading I've done makes it seem possible that the disease could have come from 1. the hatchery, 2. the feed store (which I can say with certainty was not "clean" enough to believe that birds are not exposed to any number of possible things), 3. my property (which had another flock of free ranging adult chickens on it ~2 months prior to my flock). All things considered it seems my options are:

1. Give up on chickens altogether
2. Cull, intensely disinfect (chemicals, burn coop, till land), wait a long time (perhaps years) and try again with no guarantee of success. Reinfection could occur from any number of sources.
3. Work with what I have, slowly build a flock that is more robust and maybe even breed them for resistance. Obviously this will not be without it's fair share of trouble, heartbreak and frustration.

#1 is my last resort. I really don't want to give up, yet. #2 is an option but the cost, time spent waiting and labor involved with such an uncertain outcome seems too risky. I am leaning towards #3. I only want a small backyard flock for my own purposes: to keep as pets, for eggs, etc. I never planned to sell birds, and with this diagnosis in mind I would obviously completely refrain from doing so.

Am I crazy to attempt to do this?

 

[Outpost JWB]

Not at all.

Sorry you are going thru all of this though. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[mirandaleecon]

ANOTHER UPDATE: As of today the chicken is still alive and is showing signs of improvement. The swelling is mostly (or completely) gone. She does not seem to be sneezing anymore either. She is definitely still drinking and I believe she is eating too. I plan to observe her more closely tomorrow to see if she is just pecking at her food or actually successfully eating. Droppings are less watery, perhaps less green colored as well.

I plan to speak with my vet again tomorrow regarding the testing that diagnosed Mareks. I have done my reading on the disease and now I am wondering if the lab gave any indication as to what Mareks serotype was discovered. I am also going to try to contact the hatchery that the chicks came from to see if they will share what (or if) vaccine they used on the chicks. With this info I am trying to determine of there is any chance for a false positive result caused by the vaccine.

Frankly, I think the symptoms of MG, MS, Coryza and AI all fit better than Mareks. But then again all the info I have read makes it clear that symptoms are variable and that all or none of the typical symptoms may be present in Mareks cases.

The reading I've done makes it seem possible that the disease could have come from 1. the hatchery, 2. the feed store (which I can say with certainty was not "clean" enough to believe that birds are not exposed to any number of possible things), 3. my property (which had another flock of free ranging adult chickens on it ~2 months prior to my flock). All things considered it seems my options are:

1. Give up on chickens altogether
2. Cull, intensely disinfect (chemicals, burn coop, till land), wait a long time (perhaps years) and try again with no guarantee of success. Reinfection could occur from any number of sources.
3. Work with what I have, slowly build a flock that is more robust and maybe even breed them for resistance. Obviously this will not be without it's fair share of trouble, heartbreak and frustration.

#1 is my last resort. I really don't want to give up, yet. #2 is an option but the cost, time spent waiting and labor involved with such an uncertain outcome seems too risky. I am leaning towards #3. I only want a small backyard flock for my own purposes: to keep as pets, for eggs, etc. I never planned to sell birds, and with this diagnosis in mind I would obviously completely refrain from doing so.

Am I crazy to attempt to do this?

I could be wrong, but a lot of tests for diseases don't actually test for the disease, they test for the antibodies that are made in response to a disease. So if your chicken was vaccinated against Mareks, and they test for antibodies against Mareks, she should test positive. Does the vet know she was vaccinated?

As far as moving forward, I think #3 is a good choice. And if for some reason these two don't make it, I would disinfect as well as possible and maybe start over with some older (laying age) hens whose immune system have a better chance of fighting whatever this is off...

 

[ia02]

UPDATE: the hen who was sick has seemingly completely recovered. She is strong, growing fast and has been reintroduced to her flock of two. All the facial swelling has been gone for a while and she has no other signs of respiratory distress.

I am still reading up on symptom/death timelines for Mareks but I don't think this bird should be improving if her symptoms were caused by Mareks. There were never any paralysis or eye symptoms. She isn't wasting either.

I am still watching her closely but for now I am happy that she is doing so well. Thanks for all the replies!

 

[Outpost JWB]

Glad she is doing good. One chicken disease I'd like you to read up on that the symptoms match is Infectious Coryza. Just in case there is another with these symptoms, or she becomes sick again. Have a good day