Updated! - Test Your Diagnostic Skills - Warning, Contains Graphic Necropsy Photos

[casportpony]

I don’t know if I’m in the correct post, please bear with me. I have had 4 young, healthy chickens die recently. I finally was able to do a necropsy and will post my pictures here to not offend anyone. I think they are getting an impacted crop, but I do not know tha anatomy of a chicken as well as I know human anatomy. Anyways, I recently got a new brand of wood shavings and they appear to have a lot of “fines” along with the flakes. I did tell the store I was using them to bed chickens and this is what they sold me. I do give them some scratch twice a day, and was also worried about rats. This is my first necropsy and I just kinda winged it, so bear with me.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/dying-chicken-with-bloody-vent.1219521/#post-19502015

Welcome to BYC! I am no expert, but the color of her liver looks wrong and looks like she has a larger than normal amount of fat. let me see if I can find someone that processes a lot of meat birds to comment.

 

[casportpony]

@Ol Grey Mare , does the hen in the pictures above have a normal amount of fat?

 

[rebrascora]

@Jspenc02
Hi again and well done for investigating these deaths further. I know it is a bit daunting cutting a bird open for the first time. You did a good job.

The two things that strike me are the same as Kathy (@casportpony ) mentions:- The colour of the liver and the large amount of yellow fat.... there is even a crown of it on the heart and the gizzard is also encased in it. That is not good.

Are these photos all of just one bird?
Can you tell us how old this bird was?

If I remember correctly they were young birds that were dying and if this bird is under a year old, then that is way too much fat and I would hazard a guess at Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome as the cause, although the liver looks reasonably stable.....in really bad cases, the liver just falls apart when you get hold of it. I would suggest that their diet may be the issue here and I would start by cutting out the scratch altogether. What else do you feed them? ie what does their main feed consist of.... Layer pellets/crumble, mash or grain mix?
A diet too high in carbohydrates and not enough protein will lead to this problem and with hens being fluff balls of feathers it is hard to tell when they are getting overweight. Unfortunately, hens are like top level athletes in the sense that their bodies are at maximum productivity level.... higher than nature really intended, so it is really important that their diet is balanced to support that level of productivity. Hens love carbs just like we do, so they will eat them in preference to the more healthy pulses. If you feed them scratch they will fill up on that and not eat so much of their layer ration.

The organ that you cut open containing the fibrous material is the gizzard. It is normal for it to be packed tight with food and fibrous material and grit.... hopefully you do provide grit for your chickens..... the gizzard is a very strong muscular pouch where the bird uses grit to grind down any food that is lumpy or fibrous.... basically it performs the function that chewing does for us. It has to be packed full in order to function.

I am by no means an expert, but the large fat deposits and the liver colour are pretty conclusive in my opinion.

 

[Jspenc02]

Ok. I was thinking that that was a lot of fat. They are about 6 months old and the liver did just fall apart when I moved it. Ok. I will stop feeding scratch to them. I have another coop with 1 brown RI and about 16 leghorns and I have fed them since chicks the same way. Strange. I do leave grit out and mix it in the feed occasionally. The gizzard did have grit in it.

So it’s not rats, but I do have a rat problem. I have 3 baseball sized holes in the pen. I assume they are eating the feed since I have seen an increase of usage. I do have protected bait stations around, but they haven’t touched them. If I take the food away at night do you think it will cause them to eat the bait or move to the feed room or fight with the chickens during the day over the food??

Thanks all.

 

[rebrascora]

I'm not sure what breed these girls are that you are having problems with but Leghorns are naturally more flighty, energetic birds, so they may be burning off the carbohydrate calories better. Heavier dual purpose birds like Sussex, Orpingtons etc will be more prone to Fatty Liver Disease because they are bigger, slower, calmer birds. At 6 months old that is a huge amount of fat to have accumulated. Your Leghorns may still be building up a dangerous layer of fat, but just be taking longer for it to become an issue, so I would change their diet too.

What do you use as their main feed? I'm just curious if it is a grain mix as quite a large percentage of the other people experiencing this problem have been using an organic grain mix. I have a theory that the birds will pick out their favourite bits from a grain mix and perhaps leave the higher protein lentils etc that are less appealing for rodents to clean up. It might explain why you have a rodent problem although I accept that when you have poultry, rats will always be an issue sooner or later.
I would remove the feeders at night and consider switching to a pellet or crumble (much less waste with pellets) if you are currently using a grain mix and leave the grit in a separate container. Mixing anything into the feed will cause them to bill it out to get the bits they want. That is why a homogenous pellet means less waste, because there is no incentive for them to bill it out....ie no good bits in it to find. Your hens will go on strike when you change their feed, so be prepared to hold out until they give in and try to make it a gradual change, rather that suddenly stop one feed and start another.

 

[Jspenc02]

The breed is either isa or ri. I got them in August at tractor supply. I have been feeding dumor crumbles 16% and sometimes pellets 16% (same brand). I would go through about a bag a week with crumbles for about 28 birds. The store was out of crumbles and I got the pellets and i have been going through two bags a week. There doesn’t seem to be much waste, maybe there are a lot more rats than I think! Anyways, I switched back to crumbles. I usually keep the feeders full and let them eat when they want. I am gonna start limiting that to what they eat a day to help starve the rats and make them eat the poison baits. Any other ideas?

 

[rebrascora]

How much scratch were you feeding them? I'm amazed that they got that fat on mostly layer pellets of crumbles. Were they getting any other treats?

I had a big problem with rats last year and they were even coming through the day and jumping up on the hanging feeder. Removing the feeder at night definitely helps make them go for the bait station poison. If you start seeing them at the feeder through the day, you may have to resort to giving the hens two feeds a day like some people do with fermented feed. The hens eat all the food within 10-15 mins twice a day, so the rats don't get a look in. I would certainly make your coop rat proof because if you do have a major rat problem, they may start to target the chickens whilst they are roosting.

 

[coach723]

Agree with the previous posts about the liver color and the fat deposits.
For the rats, I would recommend that you ditch the poison and try electric traps. The rats get electrocuted when they go inside. They cost more, but I've had much better luck with them. I don't like poison because it doesn't stay where you put it and it's a risk for every other animal. The rats carry it back to the nest or where ever they drop it, or die somewhere else and are eaten. The electric traps can be left out all the time and pose no risk to your birds. You bait them, check and empty daily, or more often at first maybe since you seem to have so many. That and removing food at night will help you get rid of them. What material have they chewed through to make the holes? If you can replace it with hardware cloth, 1/2 " or smaller, that would help, or line it with 1/2 " hardware cloth. They will also tunnel, so if you block their current entries they will try to dig new ones. Burying the cloth around your perimeter can help prevent the digging in. Also if you have lots of brush, or brush piles, debris piles, or other buildings that they can hide under near your chicken coop, they may be living in there.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

@Jspenc02 I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you for taking the time to share your photos with us.

I'm still learning but, I do agree with the others about the fat deposits and about revisiting how and what you feed. Sometimes, even with changes in diet, some hens just simply may not be active enough or could even be genetically predisposed to pack on the fat.

I'd like to see @speckledhen and @Eggcessive give there thoughts as well.

This photo - I assume, this is where you initially opened her up. The "lump" I have circled - was that a mass of waxy "yuck"? What was that like when you removed it and do you have photos of it or did you slice it open. To me, it looks like what you will see with internal laying - basically the body has tried to encapsulate loose yolks.

Did she have egg yolks and whites in the abdomen like that?

I'm not a vet nor an expert - nor do I have the ability to use medical or proper anatomy terminology, I can only make a guess. Too much fat in the abdomen made it hard for eggs to develop properly all the time, so some were pressed back up the oviduct and dropped into the abdomen. Over time, some yolks were encased in that thick waxy "mass". The stress of the yolks and mass along with the fat in the abdomen, on the liver, heart and internal organs which caused some hemorrhaging - this is where I believe you started to see the bloody vent and eggs come into play. That many things going on internally, a chicken will decline rapidly. While Fatty Liver Disease, may be for the most part preventable, internal laying/reproductive disorders cannot. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/dying-chicken-with-bloody-vent.1219521/

Just me think out loud.

 

[speckledhen]

You've already had some excellent information from knowledgeable folks here, nothing much I can add. I agree about the liver appearing odd and too much fat. Maybe it's the photo, but to me, the heart color is a tad off, maybe it's just my eyes. Anyway, poor hen and poor you! You were very brave to open her up. The more you do it, the more you learn (says she who has opened up a lot of hens who died of various reproductive issues). And just when you think you've seen it all, you'll see something bizarre.

My oddest one: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...w-fluid-rip-hope-graphic-photos-added.924895/