Updated! - Test Your Diagnostic Skills - Warning, Contains Graphic Necropsy Photos

[Wyorp Rock]

Hi, seeing if I can get some insight into my bird's death.
Speckled Sussex was 10 months old. I observed no symptoms until I found her laying under the roost, barely conscience. She died only a couple hours afterward.

She was secreting watery discharge from her cloaca which was tinged red. That thread is here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/chicken-dying-sleeping-not-alert.1221972/

I know this is not proper necropsy technique, but we're just feeling tired tonight and needed to at least take a look inside and see if there was anything obvious.
Again, sorry for the shotty job. Also forgot to check the mouth and neck. I don't believe she had anything in her crop.

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Thank you for taking the time to share your photos with us.
Again, I'm sorry you lost her.

I'm not a vet nor an anatomy expert, hopefully the others will chime in shortly with their thoughts.
@Eggcessive @casportpony @TwoCrows @speckledhen @rebrascora

The first thing that stands out in the photos to me is the amount of fat in the abdomen. This can cause a great deal of stress on the internal organs and they can have difficulty laying eggs. Too much fat can eventually lead to Fatty Liver Disease and cause them to bleed out. I don't really see any blood in the abdomen, but I would suspect she was having trouble passing an egg or she may have had a lot of pressure that ruptured small capillaries in the oviduct, this may have been the cause of the bloody discharge.

I glanced quickly back at your other thread and don't see you mention what type of food/treats that you give your girls. While I really do believe that some chickens are more prone to be fat (genetics), feed still plays an important part in controlling some health problems. We all love to treat our girls! I do, I have to watch myself, they are like little sweet faced beggars. A good rule to go by is to limit treats to no more than 5-10% of their daily intake depending on the protein content of the feed you give.

 

[Treerooted]

Regular layer pellet feed from purina
I don't offer treats very often, sometimes I save them some fruit or veggie scraps instead of throwing it in the compost. I gave them a small pumpkin the day she died.
They're pastured chickens but haven't been going out much because of the snow. The coop is large with lots of room to wander around.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Regular layer pellet feed from purina
I don't offer treats very often, sometimes I save them some fruit or veggie scraps instead of throwing it in the compost. I gave them a small pumpkin the day she died.
They're pastured chickens but haven't been going out much because of the snow. The coop is large with lots of room to wander around.

Pumpkin makes a wonderful treat

It possible that she may not have been as active as the others and just gained more weight than she should have. Some chickens do seem to become heavier, even though they eat what the others do. Having to stay inside, does reduce activity levels, but genetics could have played a part too.

 

[rebrascora]

Hi.

I would have to agree that the huge amount of fat has certainly been a contributing factor as @Wyorp Rock has outlined. To see a thick layer of it attached to the intestinal membrane all along it's length like that is quite astonishing in a relatively young bird. It is odd that there is a dark line all along the intestine separating it from the fat and I'm not sure what that might be. The liver is also paler than I would like to see which may indicate Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome..... a clearer picture of the liver would have been helpful when so much fat was found. Did you handle/ remove the liver (I'm guessing you may have to get to the heart) and if so, was it quite solid or did it easily break apart when handled?

I appreciate that you don't feed many treats but some people don't consider that scratch is a treat, so just wondering if you feed any scratch or grains at all or do they have access to other animals' feed where they might be filling up on grains or perhaps forage in stubble fields where there has been some grain spillage?

Sussex are a heavier breed and therefore more sedate and don't burn off the calories like lighter weight birds. There is some suggestion that higher protein feeds for heavier breeds is beneficial (more protein means less fat producing carbohydrate)... I'm not sure what the protein content of your Purina layer pellets is, but if they don't have access to scratch or other grains and it is only 16%, and you have other heavy breed birds, you might want to up it to 18 or 20% protein feed

I'm having difficulty identifying some of the organ in your photos and wonder if you might be able to confirm....

The large dark mass in the centre of the fourth photo looks like it might be the kidneys (from the colour) but is much larger than I would expect and normally the kidneys are embedded tightly into the back, nestled into the skeletal structure behind the ovary. Just wondering if you can remember if that organ in the picture was hanging loose in the abdominal cavity or if it was stuck to the back.
It is usually quite difficult to prize them out when you are processing.

I'm guessing that the organ in your hand in the fifth photo is the heart?? Again it is concerning that there are fatty deposits on it making it almost unrecognisable.

The final photo I'm assuming is the intestine cut open. There doesn't look to be anything untoward in that small section. In the background you can clearly see the ovary with ripe follicles ready to be released. Were there any eggs in the oviduct or cloaca, perhaps indicating egg binding, which will be a risk with a bird carrying so much fat.

Was there any obvious fluid in the abdominal cavity when you cut her open? If so, what colour. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the innards of a chickens (perhaps from processing) but you would expect the abdominal cavity to be moist but no surplus fluid.
If that really is the kidneys in the fourth photo, my gut feeling is that there is something amiss for them to be so large. I will be interested to read what @casportpony picks up from these photos and her thoughts on a possible cause.

 

[Treerooted]

Thank you for the thoughtful questions!

Hi.
Did you handle/ remove the liver (I'm guessing you may have to get to the heart) and if so, was it quite solid or did it easily break apart when handled?

I don't remember unfortunately

I appreciate that you don't feed many treats but some people don't consider that scratch is a treat, so just wondering if you feed any scratch or grains at all or do they have access to other animals' feed where they might be filling up on grains or perhaps forage in stubble fields where there has been some grain spillage?

No scratch. No other animal feed. No foraging right now because it's winter (frozen/snow covered).

Just wondering if you can remember if that organ in the picture was hanging loose in the abdominal cavity or if it was stuck to the back.

(photo #4)
This was the most concerning part, but I wanted to see if it stuck out to anyone else. As far as we could tell, this was part of the ovaries. It was floating loose in the cavity with some of the eggs attached.
I haven't been able to find anything that would explain the dark colour.

I'm guessing that the organ in your hand in the fifth photo is the heart?? Again it is concerning that there are fatty deposits on it making it almost unrecognisable.

Yes, that's the heart

Were there any eggs in the oviduct or cloaca, perhaps indicating egg binding, which will be a risk with a bird carrying so much fat.

No, unless we somehow missed it.

Was there any obvious fluid in the abdominal cavity when you cut her open? If so, what colour. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the innards of a chickens (perhaps from processing) but you would expect the abdominal cavity to be moist but no surplus fluid.

I thought it seemed like a bit of extra fluid - looked the same as what she was discharging. Clear and watery with a tinge of red




As for the fat issue: my sussex are the most active of my breeds, always the first to come running when called (though it's possible that only my other three have been doing this lately and I failed notice my forth wasn't).
I have all heavy breeds that will endure the cold winters. I would expect they have to put on lots of fat to withstand the extreme cold. But, the only birds we've processed have been roos in the early fall, so I don't have the experience or comparisons.

And an update on the rest of the flock: everyone is doing well, so far this is an isolated case (thank goodness).
I'd been thinking about adding extra protein, particularly because they've started laying again but the bugs aren't out yet. I'll check the percent in the feed as I just don't remember off hand.

 

[Treerooted]

Here is another look at the assumed overies at the bottom of this photo.

 

[Sue Gremlin]

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This is not a normal structure. I can't even tell what it is. Is it part of the colon? Whatever it is, it's very hemorrhagic and/or necrotic, and would explain the discharge.

The amount and color of the fat looks normal for a hen in lay, and the liver looks pretty good for one as well, from my experience, slightly pale but nothing that would cause sudden death. The few times I've seen hepatic lipidosis, the liver looked like scrambled eggs.

 

[Treerooted]

Should I make another thread focusing on the black/purple mass to see if there's more insight to be found? If it's not a normal structure then that seems like a good thing to focus on for diagnoses.

 

[rebrascora]

I doubt you will get any more knowledgeable people on another thread than those that frequent this thread. It may just take longer for people to see it and comment.
A possibility might be to contact your state ag dept or veterinary college and see if they will take a look at the photos via email and give you an opinion. The difficulty is not being able to see that structure in it's entirety and understand it's exact location in the body cavity and feel it's texture and confirm that it is not the kidneys, by locating those separately. Has the carcass been disposed of?

I was beginning to doubt my concerns about the amount of fat after reading Sue Gremlin's post, but I have done a bit of research since then (You Tube "processing laying hens") and now stand by my opinion as regards the level of fat, particularly that covering the intestinal membrane of a 10 month old pullet. I really do not think that is healthy.

 

[Treerooted]

OK thanks @rebrascora