Urgent: post-amputation care, advice needed/I thought I would spend my Saturday doing this...

[ryneaeiel]

So, a few things. If you haven't already, stop feeding her bread. This can swell and mold in the crop and cause sour crop and bacterial infections, which would open up a whole other can of worms. She should be getting her normal feed and one scrambled egg per day with nothing added.

If you need to forcibly make her drink, get a syringe or water dropper and drop water into the end of her beak. If she doesn't take it that way, you can also drop it into the corner of her beak, but you have to take care to make sure you don't give her too much too quickly or she may aspirate it. Keep her food and water nearby so that she doesn't need to walk -- right now, she needs to be contained to keep her from putting pressure on her leg. I also recommend bringing her indoors if you haven't already to minimize the risk of flies; this also makes it much easier to observe her. Her bedding also needs to be changed daily to prevent her from sitting in her own waste, and I recommend using wet wipes to clean around her vent if you see any feces stuck there.

The crack you showed seems to actually be auto-amputation. The leg is infected and a little necrotic -- likely the result of unsterilized shears -- but her body already seems to be separating infected portion of the leg from the rest of her body. Disinfect the crack twice daily (I would simply irrigate it with peroxide) and apply antibiotic ointment once per day. I'd keep her on the penicillin as well, just to make sure the infection doesn't spread further up the leg before it's separated.

It'll likely be a week or two before that portion of the leg fully necrotizes and falls off, but it will eventually. She'll be very sore and the stump will still be an open wound, so it'll need Neosporin and wrapping and she'll have to remain indoors on clean bedding until it fully heals.

Keep in mind that chickens can recover from incredibly extreme injuries. You've done great with her care so far, so don't give up now!

 

[darlingdarla]

I assume a vet visit isnt possible?

Tagging @Wyorp Rock , @aart , @azygous , @Eggcessive , @ryneaeiel , ANYone else who can please offer input here!

I hardly ever come to the emergencies forum anymore because there are so many serious issues im clueless to help with, & new threads get posted so fast the earlier emergencies quickly get left behind and lost. Your latest post today is already getting left behind too. So also tag anyone YOU think can maybe help.

While you wait for medical advice, i do want to say please dont second-guess your decisions so far. ALL is more clearly known in hindsight. You've done the best you knew how for Rosie, & youve done a lot. And even if Rosie has experienced some pain the past 2 months, youve surely seen she has continued to enjoy her life. Heck my achy ol' body hurts every day, but that doesnt mean i want to be euthanized! So whatever happens from here on out, know know that Rosie is glad for it.

Ok hoping u get expert input very soon. If not, post your plea again. There are a Many knowledeable people on byc. Getting someone to see your thread is the key. Dont give up!

Thank you so much.

So, a few things. If you haven't already, stop feeding her bread. This can swell and mold in the crop and cause sour crop and bacterial infections, which would open up a whole other can of worms. She should be getting her normal feed and one scrambled egg per day with nothing added.

If you need to forcibly make her drink, get a syringe or water dropper and drop water into the end of her beak. If she doesn't take it that way, you can also drop it into the corner of her beak, but you have to take care to make sure you don't give her too much too quickly or she may aspirate it. Keep her food and water nearby so that she doesn't need to walk -- right now, she needs to be contained to keep her from putting pressure on her leg. I also recommend bringing her indoors if you haven't already to minimize the risk of flies; this also makes it much easier to observe her. Her bedding also needs to be changed daily to prevent her from sitting in her own waste, and I recommend using wet wipes to clean around her vent if you see any feces stuck there.

The crack you showed seems to actually be auto-amputation. The leg is infected and a little necrotic -- likely the result of unsterilized shears -- but her body already seems to be separating infected portion of the leg from the rest of her body. Disinfect the crack twice daily (I would simply irrigate it with peroxide) and apply antibiotic ointment once per day. I'd keep her on the penicillin as well, just to make sure the infection doesn't spread further up the leg before it's separated.

It'll likely be a week or two before that portion of the leg fully necrotizes and falls off, but it will eventually. She'll be very sore and the stump will still be an open wound, so it'll need Neosporin and wrapping and she'll have to remain indoors on clean bedding until it fully heals.

Keep in mind that chickens can recover from incredibly extreme injuries. You've done great with her care so far, so don't give up now!

Thank you also so much, just so you know it has been just over a month since the amputation. She hasn't eaten bread since the first morning and is on her normal feed, plus an occasional uncooked egg (because she won't eat cooked for some reason, never has). And she readily eats and drinks, everything in that area is fine.

She also has not put weight on the leg in at least two weeks. It stays tucked under her wing.

So it does look infected? Something I forgot to add, it does not smell, idk if that matters I only mention it because in other posts I have read about necrotic limbs smelling.
I don't know how it could have got infected, maybe I have been ignorant in some way, but I thoroughly disinfected everything throughout the entire process with both heat and alcohol. So frustrated at myself right now.

She is outside right now in a small coop with two bantam hens 1 year old who give her no trouble. She was very depressed indoors and has been better with the two bantams.

I cannot bring her inside because of my landlord.
I can however start cleaning the little coop daily and keeping her confined again. My issue with the confinement is that she has gotten physically weaker over the last month from inactivity, I don't want her to waste away. She is only just becoming more active but still tiers easily. Because she is putting no weight on the leg, and I mean none, I think it might be okay for her to continue being let out of the run for some outside time.
If I am incorrect, please correct me, I'm just trying to figure out what is best for her.

Also, she has not been on penicillin since the initial four days. Should I give her another round? And at what dose for how long?

I've read that amputations over the knee joint have much higher chances of getting infected, which has me worried.

Definitely going to give her a chance and do everything I can. I just don't want her to suffer if her prognosis is ultimately dark. But if the good people on this sight thinks she has a chance I will defer to their knowledge.
I will continue to update and again, ANYONE who has some advice or just wants to chime in please do, I truly appreciate you taking the time.

 

[darlingdarla]

I assume a vet visit isnt possible?

Sorry, and unfortunately no. There are no vets in my area and even if there was I cannot afford it right now, I only just found a new job.
I wish there was one near me for serious things like this though.

 

[ryneaeiel]

So it does look infected? Something I forgot to add, it does not smell, idk if that matters I only mention it because in other posts I have read about necrotic limbs smelling.

Sometimes they smell and sometimes they don't. Typically it only smells if there's pus involved, since that's the active "decay" and gives off that horrible smell. If it's dry necrosis (like this seems to be) there usually isn't that much of a smell, if any at all.

I don't know how it could have got infected, maybe I have been ignorant in some way, but I thoroughly disinfected everything throughout the entire process with both heat and alcohol. So frustrated at myself right now.

Don't beat yourself up over it since it could honestly have been anything that caused the infection. It might have been tools, dust in the air, anything.

I can however start cleaning the little coop daily and keeping her confined again.

Yes, I'd honestly try to clean the coop twice daily if possible just to minimize the risk of flies and any feces getting into the wound and worsening the infection.

She is only just becoming more active but still tiers easily. Because she is putting no weight on the leg, and I mean none, I think it might be okay for her to continue being let out of the run for some outside time.
If I am incorrect, please correct me, I'm just trying to figure out what is best for her.

She should be confined as much as possible without making her "cramped" -- enough room to turn around if she wants to, but not enough to really walk around. A medium-sized dog crate is about the amount of room she should have, since too much room would encourage her to move and she needs to keep off that leg until it separates -- otherwise she might risk putting too much weight on it and snapping it off prematurely, which would result in a bloody mess, a lot of pain and stress, and interrupt or reverse the healing process.

Also, she has not been on penicillin since the initial four days. Should I give her another round? And at what dose for how long?

If she's a standard size hen, she should be getting 2cc orally of Penicillin G once daily for five days.

 

[aart]

Good video.
That 'break' above the ankle is concerning.
Does it feel like the bone is affected or just a break in the skin?
Is leg 'hot' like it's infected?

Not sure what to tell you.
Hopefully @Eggcessive and/or @Wyorp Rock chime in they are much more fluent than I in such matters.

 

[Idaho Chicken Bungalow]

I assume a vet visit isnt possible?

Tagging @Wyorp Rock , @aart , @azygous , @Eggcessive , @ryneaeiel , ANYone else who can please offer input here!

I hardly ever come to the emergencies forum anymore because there are so many serious issues im clueless to help with, & new threads get posted so fast the earlier emergencies quickly get left behind and lost. Your latest post today is already getting left behind too. So also tag anyone YOU think can maybe help.

While you wait for medical advice, i do want to say please dont second-guess your decisions so far. ALL is more clearly known in hindsight. You've done the best you knew how for Rosie, & youve done a lot. And even if Rosie has experienced some pain the past 2 months, youve surely seen she has continued to enjoy her life. Heck my achy ol' body hurts every day, but that doesnt mean i want to be euthanized! So whatever happens from here on out, know know that Rosie is glad for it.

Ok hoping u get expert input very soon. If not, post your plea again. There are a Many knowledeable people on byc. Getting someone to see your thread is the key. Dont give up!

Has anyone on here seen the thread where a gal took a little roo's leg at the leg joint next to the body? I will go look for it. and try to link it. I would look to see if a vet will help.

 

[Idaho Chicken Bungalow]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/just-amputated-a-chicken-leg.1494355/
Amazing result.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

@darlingdarla , as far as worrying Rosie will lose too much muscle mass & mobility, i can tell u my hen was almost entirely immobilized for 7 MONTHS, due first to pain, then the length of time it took both feet to auto-amputate and then to heal. Like you i was very concerned about her loss of mobility and resulting health effects. But both @ryneaeiel and @BGcoop told me not to let her walk on the fresh stumps. So i didnt. And just in the last few weeks my hen is now often standing upright, and beginning to hobble around. She's becoming more mobile every day. So please take ryneaeiel 's expert advice, and other input u get here too. They wont steer you wrong. Then be patient and allow the healing process take place.

 

[darlingdarla]

Sometimes they smell and sometimes they don't. Typically it only smells if there's pus involved, since that's the active "decay" and gives off that horrible smell. If it's dry necrosis (like this seems to be) there usually isn't that much of a smell, if any at all.


Don't beat yourself up over it since it could honestly have been anything that caused the infection. It might have been tools, dust in the air, anything.


Yes, I'd honestly try to clean the coop twice daily if possible just to minimize the risk of flies and any feces getting into the wound and worsening the infection.


She should be confined as much as possible without making her "cramped" -- enough room to turn around if she wants to, but not enough to really walk around. A medium-sized dog crate is about the amount of room she should have, since too much room would encourage her to move and she needs to keep off that leg until it separates -- otherwise she might risk putting too much weight on it and snapping it off prematurely, which would result in a bloody mess, a lot of pain and stress, and interrupt or reverse the healing process.


If she's a standard size hen, she should be getting 2cc orally of Penicillin G once daily for five days.

Okay, I was just curious about the smell. Would dry necrosis be better? Just wondering, obviously none of this is good.

Okay, thank you, but I don't know how not to beat myself up.

Okay, will do. Luckily there are very few flies in the coop now that we're out of the hot summer months. Oh, and she is no long soiling herself like she was in the beginning.

The little coop sounds like the perfect size then, I will put the food and water back inside so she doesn't need to go into the run.

This is the penicillin I have, is this okay to give orally?

Good video.
That 'break' above the ankle is concerning.
Does it feel like the bone is affected or just a break in the skin?
Is leg 'hot' like it's infected?

Not sure what to tell you.
Hopefully @Eggcessive and/or @Wyorp Rock chime in they are much more fluent than I in such matters.

The bone may be exposed, I would need to look more invasively. I can check further tomorrow. I can try to cut more feathers away as well, I just didn't want to leave it exposed for too long.
The leg is warm, not quite infected hot but it's hard to tell.

Has anyone on here seen the thread where a gal took a little roo's leg at the leg joint next to the body? I will go look for it. and try to link it. I would look to see if a vet will help.

I will read through that thread. I could call a nearby exotic vet, but I've asked him before for things like fecal tests and it's been a no. But maybe he would help with something this serious, idk.

@darlingdarla , as far as worrying Rosie will lose too much muscle mass & mobility, i can tell u my hen was almost entirely immobilized for 7 MONTHS, due first to pain, then the length of time it took both feet to auto-amputate and then to heal. Like you i was very concerned about her loss of mobility and resulting health effects. But both @ryneaeiel and @BGcoop told me not to let her walk on the fresh stumps. So i didnt. And just in the last few weeks my hen is now often standing upright, and beginning to hobble around. She's becoming more mobile every day. So please take ryneaeiel 's expert advice, and other input u get here too. They wont steer you wrong. Then be patient and allow the healing process take place.

Okay, I'm glad to know your hen is regaining mobility, that is so amazing and gives me a lot of hope for my hen after reading Matilda's story.
I also get concerned because she is old, around six, but honestly I don't know. I know she was at least two when I got her and it's been four since she became mine.
Anyway, I will keep her confined tomorrow.

Thank you all so much.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

I understand your concern re Rosie's age; Matilda will be 6 years old this coming february. I dont have a crystal ball to know if her life has been shortened & if so how much. But i am positive Matilda is still enjoying her life. And I bet if i asked Rosie she would say the same.

Also, you previously mentioned Rosie was a top hen in her flock's pecking order. So was Matilda. Her flock is much too big to have a true pecking order (130-ish older hens & 2 older roos), but i never once saw Matilda get in a spat with other hens. After she lost her feet, other hens noticed her handicap and sometimes bullied her at the food trough, causing her to duck her head and move away. It was painful to watch. But as Matilda's muscle strength and mobility has returned the past few weeks, she is now asserting herself and causing Other hens to leave. So again, give Rosie all the time she needs to physically heal. She's a tough girl same as Matilda, & after her stump heals, Rosie will find her way back in the pecking order too.