Utility Genetics

[Amer]

@AMERAUCANAS4REAL: That makes sense. So basically it would be pointless to mess with improving a Cornish because you'd wind up with a Buckeye.

I personally don't mind a slower-growing bird ... that was what I was trying to say. I could get very long-winded on that subject, but I won't.

Thank you. I really appreciate your informative posts.

@crazy4ChickensNducks: Thank you for your reply! I have in fact heard of Icelandics.

The two problems I have with Icies is that they're not very promising meat birds - kind of small - and that their temperaments do not sound very pleasant. Even if they're not pets, it's a lot more work and a lot less enjoyable to deal with uncooperative livestock.

I'm very interested in hardy chickens, though. After all, some meat would be better than none.

But, while I want something that won't sit by the feeder and gorge itself, I expect that, as far north as I am, I'm going to have to feed them a little anyway. I just want them to make the best possible use of the pasture I'm able to give them. I wonder if they'd murder each other if they had to be shut up during extreme cold? (Who would expect a chicken to survive -60 wind chill?)

In general they're quite rare and it's a little hard to say if they're being over-hyped. Also, that makes them hard to get.

I wonder about using them to cross over something else (to bring in color and hardiness) that would lend some meatiness and docility. Or just keeping some separate, as an internal hedge against disaster.

Yah. With all the traits Buckeyes have hardiness is the main reason I keep them.
On -60 days, I do lock my birds up. Though they love free-ranging, they tolerate confinement.
Speaking of "hyped-up" and "long-winded" I finally ran out of things to say about Buckeyes. Only took five posts, wow...

 

[WiderHorizons]

@ColtHandorf: Thank you for replying! I have. Kind of like the Icelandics, they're pretty rare, so not a lot of information about them - just the positive highlights, none of those nitty gritty details that I love. Could you tell us about some of your experiences with them? Compare them to something a little more common so we can get a good idea of what they're like?

For instance, where did you get them? How much meat do you get off of one at slaughter, and how long does it take to get them there? Can you describe their egg production, in terms of amount and size? What makes these chickens stand out from the other heritage breeds? Glossed over they all sound more or less the same, but they're all a little different, special in one way or another.

I know the Javas were used to develop the Jersey Giant. I would especially love to know how they compare to those. (Smaller, I'm guessing. )
@AMERAUCANAS4REAL: I don't mean that. You've been wonderfully helpful, and if you've been long-winded it's only because you graciously answered all the questions I've asked. But ranting about one's views and opinions unasked might not be so welcome. It all fits together like a jigsaw puzzle, and before I know it I'm talking about something that seems kind of distantly removed from where I started. So I pare it down, so that I don't have a post a mile long. (And, let's be honest, I can be long-winded about anything. But what I had planned to say then was longer than this!)

I gather, then, that the Buckeyes were more pleasing than the Red Rangers, at least for you.

How would you say the Buckeye's dark meat compares to a turkey? Gamier?

I generally like turkey, and sometimes I think the dark meat is my favorite part ... but sometimes the dark meat has a weird (almost slightly bitter?) taste ... especially left over, in soup, when it has boiled down some. I never seem to get that with the breast meat, but it's also much stronger with the back meat (which I don't use at all anymore in consequence). I'm the only one in my family that is bothered by this; the others don't even notice. That might be the result of one or more commercial farming practices which I would not replicate. It might also be the result of poor culinary practices, a product of my own ignorance. But now, if that is gamey-ness, then I don't like it, and that would be very good to know.

I'm hoping someone who has raised heritage Wyandottes can find their way here and tell us something about them. I know the hatchery birds have a bad reputation for nastiness, but that's not in the breed standard.

 

[Amer]

@ColtHandorf: Thank you for replying! I have. Kind of like the Icelandics, they're pretty rare, so not a lot of information about them - just the positive highlights, none of those nitty gritty details that I love. Could you tell us about some of your experiences with them? Compare them to something a little more common so we can get a good idea of what they're like?

For instance, where did you get them? How much meat do you get off of one at slaughter, and how long does it take to get them there? Can you describe their egg production, in terms of amount and size? What makes these chickens stand out from the other heritage breeds? Glossed over they all sound more or less the same, but they're all a little different, special in one way or another.

I know the Javas were used to develop the Jersey Giant. I would especially love to know how they compare to those. (Smaller, I'm guessing. )
@AMERAUCANAS4REAL: I don't mean that. You've been wonderfully helpful, and if you've been long-winded it's only because you graciously answered all the questions I've asked. But ranting about one's views and opinions unasked might not be so welcome. It all fits together like a jigsaw puzzle, and before I know it I'm talking about something that seems kind of distantly removed from where I started. So I pare it down, so that I don't have a post a mile long. (And, let's be honest, I can be long-winded about anything. But what I had planned to say then was longer than this!)

I gather, then, that the Buckeyes were more pleasing than the Red Rangers, at least for you.

How would you say the Buckeye's dark meat compares to a turkey? Gamier?

I generally like turkey, and sometimes I think the dark meat is my favorite part ... but sometimes the dark meat has a weird (almost slightly bitter?) taste ... especially left over, in soup, when it has boiled down some. I never seem to get that with the breast meat, but it's also much stronger with the back meat (which I don't use at all anymore in consequence). I'm the only one in my family that is bothered by this; the others don't even notice. That might be the result of one or more commercial farming practices which I would not replicate. It might also be the result of poor culinary practices, a product of my own ignorance. But now, if that is gamey-ness, then I don't like it, and that would be very good to know.

I'm hoping someone who has raised heritage Wyandottes can find their way here and tell us something about them. I know the hatchery birds have a bad reputation for nastiness, but that's not in the breed standard.

Welp, I'm glad you appreciate it!
Much gamey-er than turkey. The only resemblance is in the breast meat, though Buckeye drumsticks are kinda huge like turkey legs, so there's that.
I actually prefer the Red Rangers for meat, but they aren't as easy to breed. Maybe you should ask someone with experience with that how they felt about breeding red Rangers.
I don't think I can explain the gamey taste because it's really about personal preference. You really don't know the taste until you try it. I guess you could just buy a rooster to sample. All heritage breeds have a level of "gaminess," Buckeyes just hold very strong in the area.

 

[WiderHorizons]

@AMERAUCANAS4REAL: Okay. Makes sense.

 

[ColtHandorf]

"@ColtHandorf: Thank you for replying! I have. Kind of like the Icelandics, they're pretty rare, so not a lot of information about them - just the positive highlights, none of those nitty gritty details that I love. Could you tell us about some of your experiences with them? Compare them to something a little more common so we can get a good idea of what they're like?

For instance, where did you get them? How much meat do you get off of one at slaughter, and how long does it take to get them there? Can you describe their egg production, in terms of amount and size? What makes these chickens stand out from the other heritage breeds? Glossed over they all sound more or less the same, but they're all a little different, special in one way or another.

I know the Javas were used to develop the Jersey Giant. I would especially love to know how they compare to those. (Smaller, I'm guessing. )"

They are certainly more rare than some breeds. And you would ask about where I got them! lol That's been well over fifteen years ago. I believe the Mottled Javas actually came from Ideal Hatchery. Despite being from a hatchery and not a breeder they were actually really nice birds. I originally ordered four pullets and one cockerel (twice on the cockerel) and both times the young male died in some freak accident. All of the pullets survived to adulthood and went on to live in a mixed "kitchen" flock. They laid well and had very nice manners. They foraged well when turned out to free range in the afternoon/evenings and were also quite pretty to look at. I couldn't speak to the weight or temperament of the males though.

The Black and White Javas came from a breeder that was selling the eggs on Eggbid.com back when that was still a thing. I ended up with something like 30 or so Blacks and 4 Whites. They were just as awesome as the Mottled. They were equally handsome although I must say I preferred the Whites just because they were so beautiful and also so rare. The Black Javas were well-mannered, I never had any aggressive roosters, although they did occasionally over-breed some of the hens. They were great foragers and laid really well. The Black and Mottled matured sooner than the Whites. I can only assume this is because the Whites are fairly inbred as people are afraid to cross them onto Blacks to create splits and widen the gene pool. The Blacks were probably the largest of the three colors but not by much. The Mottled and White birds were very similar in size once they reached maturity, the Mottled birds simply did it first.

The White Javas like I said were my favorite. They were very gentle and despite their slow development once they reached maturity they laid just as well. The roosters were really close in size to the Black roosters. The hens were just a bit smaller. I did raise their chicks separately from the other large fowl chickens I had at the time. The Barnevelders and the White Javas stayed with the bantam breeds until they were much older.

On the whole, I would recommend them to anyone that ones a true "heritage" breed as I think they are excellent foragers and relatively unchanged by time and the waning interest of the poultry world in favor of production breeds. I would also suggest obtaining them from several breeders and to outcross White Javas to unrelated Black Javas in order to make them as strong as the other varieties. 15 years ago I wanted to cross a Blue Giant onto some Black Javas to recreate the Blue Java as well.

 

[WiderHorizons]

@ColtHandorf: Thank you! Very helpful! Did you ever eat any as meat birds? I don't mean to pester you, and I do understand some people don't. I ask because other than external size you don't really say much about that.

 

[ColtHandorf]

You're not pestering at all. No, I never ate any of them. At the time I had about 2000 birds and was breeding them with the intention of selling hatching eggs and chicks. I had a deal with a gentleman who lived a couple of hours away who would make a "rooster run", and come pick up all my extra cockerels and culls so I never had a reason to.

 

[WiderHorizons]

@ColtHandorf: I'm glad of that! Thank you. I would guess somebody enjoyed eating them, then.

I read somewhere that the standard for Mottled Javas calls for a small single comb - thereby making them more cold hardy than other single combed breeds. Though the same source said that most Javas don't conform to that aspect of the standard.

Hmmm ...