Vegetarians ( and Vegans ) Thread!!!

[mom'sfolly]

Yes we need sugar, we however do not need refined sugars.

There are all sorts of diets out there, and a whole lot of analysis on the ethics of different diets. It is awfully hard to be vegan without taking supplements, to my mind this indicates that it is not a natural diet for humans. I prefer locally grown food, and farm raised meats simply because they taste better. I'm not eating meat now, and eat very little dairy, but this is because of a weight and cholesterol issue. I also like buying local because I don't like the ethics of big ag, and the monocultures they promote. Most of my vegetarian friends are veggies for religious reasons...Hindu or keeping kosher. The keeping kosher is easier if you just avoid meat.

From an ethical standpoint; a vegan who eats organically supports the animal industry as much as someone who eats meat. There can't be organic fertilizer without animal contributions, except if humanure is used.

 

[dolphinlvr4]

Yes we need sugar, we however do not need refined sugars.

There are all sorts of diets out there, and a whole lot of analysis on the ethics of different diets.  It is awfully hard to be vegan without taking supplements, to my mind this indicates that it is not a natural diet for humans.  I prefer locally grown food, and farm raised meats simply because they taste better.  I'm not eating meat now, and eat very little dairy, but this is because of a weight and cholesterol issue.  I also like buying local because I don't like the ethics of big ag, and the monocultures they promote.  Most of my vegetarian friends are veggies for religious reasons...Hindu or keeping kosher.  The keeping kosher is easier if you just avoid meat.

From an ethical standpoint; a vegan who eats organically supports the animal industry as much as someone who eats meat.  There can't be organic fertilizer without animal contributions, except if humanure is used.

 

[dolphinlvr4]

That's a very interesting point about fertilizer. I'm not vegan or vegetarian but I've never even considered the fertile soil that a large part of thier diet is grown in. Wow, it's almost as if no matter what we eat, there's something "wrong" with all foods. Do we just go to air for food now??? I appreciate the direction you took this because I havent heard that part of what we grow food in. Food for thought for sure! Good post Moms folly!

 

[cassie]

I don't know who told you that our bodies don't need sugar is misinformed, so you better tell them so they're not confused. We actually need sugar. Maybe not desserts or high fructose corn syrup, but out bodies need to break it down for sugar. When you get too much of it, it's another case completely. It goes straight to your fat reserves and your body burns off the sugar instead of your fat and that causes you to not lose weight and instead keep it on or gain more.

I didn't say people don't need sugar. But refined sugar and refined flour are very recent additions to our diet. Particularly in the quantities most people consume in this country.

 

[cassie]

The China Study is the biggest, most comprehensive nutritional study ever conducted. The study spans over twenty years and compare the standard American diet, or SAD (do you know how much I love that, haha) with the diets of those living in 65 counties in China (where they consume very little animal protein). Coronary heart disease, diabetes, leukemia, and cancers of the colon, lung, breast, brain, stomach and liver are actually considered Western diseases. Yikes! It's an amazing book and has absolutely nothing to do with animal rights. They just want people to stop dying from something so preventable. That some people eat crap and live to be 90 is amazing. Some people may smoke 2 packs of cigarettes a day and die of something completely unrelated, but we would never, ever, advocate for smoking. It's the same with food. Just because some dodged a bullet doesn't mean we should be placing others in the firing line.

The trouble with the Chinese study is that as well as differences in diet, differences between their lifestyle and ours are not taken into consideration. There are other factors that impact their health that are just as important, maybe more so, than what they are eating, or not eating. I would be willing to bet the Chinese in this study get a lot more exercise and eat a lot less refined sugar and flour than the average American. To attribute the difference in the incidence of disease solely to the lack of animal protein may, or may not, be accurate. On the basis of this study alone you will never know.

 

[veganloraine]

'The China Study' is as scientific as your average pop-sci magazine. ie. It is not, and it indeed bends to agendas and monetary forces. http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/ Saying that book is not tied to AR is as fallacious as claiming the PCRM is not strongly linked to the AR group that shall not be named on this forum.

Terrible science and heavy anthropomorphizing aside, I was reminded of the difference between commercially grown and either home or small-scale grown produce two times this past week. We just moved states, so are in the process of refunding local food sources and restarting a garden. At the grocery store, I was buying a bell pepper. The commercially grown bell peppers smelled like nothing at all (or perhaps like wax). The organic ones at least smelled like peppers. The commercially grown brocoli had completely hollowed stems (not the cracked stems, but completely hollow) and yellowed heads despite being on ice. We found local brocoli that remained a rich green even after being cooked, and tasted amazing. The stems were not hollow to boot. The difference never ceases to surprise me.

Bends to agendas and monetary forces? Would that be the agendas of produce growers because I know if I see one more "Broccoli: It's What's for Dinner" ad or hear one more "Got Asparagus" commercial I know I'm going to scream. Sheesh. Seriously, can you name one health care organization that advocates for more bacon in our diets? lmao

Re: fertilizers and vegans. Yes, most of our produce is being fertilized from animals sources. There's also gelatin in our car and bicycle tires. Billions of cow, pigs and chickens are slaughtered every year and that creates a lot of "by-product". Does this mean I throw my hands in the air and run to the nearest McDonalds? No way Jose. Doing something is always better than doing nothing and the fewer animals eaten the fewer creepy by-products floating around in unsuspecting places. Win win.

 

[silkiemomma9]

I missed a lot of posts, so I'm going to try and catch up but with the mobile it's hard to see posts on the previous page and it keeps removing what I've already wrote. (sigh)
Eggs- are not dairy LOL Dairy is any milk product, egg is far from dairy. Eggs aren't in a vegan diet because it is an animal product. Anything taken from an animal (battery cages and 'free range' is not ok), like honey or eggs is not ethical. Some vegans who are vegan because or dietary reasons will use honey or eggs... However they just like the word vegan.
Vegan by definition is the use of zero animal products. Nothing from an animal (meat/fur/egg/honey/oils et) is used. Therefore if someone says I'm vegan 'but' I have honey/eggs is an not. Ovo is a Vegetarianwho eats eggs, ovo-lacto is a vegetarian who eats eggs n dairy. And then there are vegetarians who say they are Vegetarian but eat a specific animal (fish or chicken usually), again vegetarian is no meat, but people like to use the word, so they say I'm veggie and only eat so and so.
Fish- not vegan and shouldn't be veggie either lol - our oceans are being destroyed as fast as our land. Not to mention the mercury levels that have increased over the years and the animals who live off the ocean dying.
I agree with all the points in regards to pollution and feeding people in regard to factory farming. However everyone always leaves out the most important and cruel part of the equation-- ranchers.
Most of our public lands are not allowing ranchers to 'graze' ther cattle, sheep on them. Sounds great for the animals, yes? Well that depends on what animals you are talking about. As an advocate for wolves, cattlemen/ranchers have become quite rich with their lawyers, advertising and lobbiests. Our wolves & wild horses are being trapped and shot as fast as they can to clear land for cattle.. And animal that technically shouldn't even be here. They came from India :-/ while the methane & run off from all of these animals are destroying the environment, now wolves are being killed for having dinner. Thanks to lazy ranchers who send off their animals without any protection (Lgd's) or anyone watching them. Our wild horses are being removed because, well they are grazing on the land they want for the cattle. Shame, they want dinner too
Did anyone watch the video I posted two pages back? It's called 'The Best Speech Ever' by Gary Yourbysky (spelling?) it's on YouTube and I believe has been put in written form on some websites. It's about an hour long, but he is a great speaker, even if you don't like the subject lol
Also this is a site I book marked awhile ago that quite a few people found interesting and it sparked a lot of debate on some facebook groups (friendly and respectful of course).
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html
Gary also touched on some of this in his speech.
I know I missed something :-/
Hope everyone is having a great day!

 

[silkiemomma9]

Sugar - as in processed is a no no for vegans, it's refined with 'bones'- I personally use Agava as a sweetener & of course fruit lots of natural sugars.
http://www.naturalnews.com/030127_animal_ingredients_food.html

 

[kuntrygirl]

I'm not a vegetarian but I LOVE eating like a vegetarian. That's why I'm always on this thread. I wish I could quit eating meat (fish, turkey and chicken) cold turkey. I'm hoping soon. :/

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Bending to corporate agendas/lobby groups is every bit as unsettling and unscientific as bending to an AR lobby group/agenda. The former does not make the latter any less poorly executed, not scientific, or disturbing. I believe I clearly indicated that I was speaking of a specific AR lobby/extremist group, and not the carrot lobby.

I was just linked to several rants by Gary Yourbysky yesterday. I am so glad the vegetarians and vegans I know personally do not exhibit extremist black and white thinking and the traits that accompany it.