Vegetarians ( and Vegans ) Thread!!!

[silkiemomma9]

As for fertilizers, I'll assume most come from manure *they try to get rid of it as much as possible, that's why spinach et gets salmonella (from poo).
Personally as I said before I grow as much as I can geographically and physically lol on my own. I compost our leaves & left overs. Haven't had to use poo and would be conserned about what the animals ate, what meds they were given et.

 

[mom'sfolly]

Some of the vegans on this thread have made me curious. Vegans, how many of you have any first hand knowledge of animal husbandry other than backyard chickens? Have you ever worked in a vet's office, on a farm or with a animals other than at a rescue? Do you have any farm experience with growing produce other than for your own table? If you grow your own produce, how do you approach pest control, fertilizer and anti-fungals?

I don't see eating ethically as a black and white issue. I think that there are so many other factors out there besides the "exploitation" of animals and animal products. While eating a plant based diet may feed more people per acre, we produce more than enough to feed the world's population today. The issues of feeding all those people are not just issues of what we grow, but what we allow for governments, distribution systems, corruption, etc. The land used to grow veggies is limited, more marginal land can be grazed. Vegetal waste products are also fed to animals. There are several traditional cultures where most of the diet is meat based; almost all of them are in areas where agriculture is limited at best.

For myself, some of the ethical considerations of food include things like: carbon footprint of shipping, environmental impact of waste, fertilizer, herbicides, ect; habitat degradation, antibiotic resistant microbes, water usage issues, especially concerning growing food crops in desert; monoculture, overfishing, etc...

There are a whole host of issues when ethics come into play. No one can be perfect, and saying that someone's choices is less valid than your own very like arguing religion. Especially when you start to use inflammatory language.

 

[dolphinlvr4]

Some of the vegans on this thread have made me curious.  Vegans, how many of you have any first hand knowledge of animal husbandry other than backyard chickens?  Have you ever worked in a vet's office, on a farm or with a animals other than at a rescue?  Do you have any farm experience with growing produce other than for your own table?  If you grow your own produce, how do you approach pest control, fertilizer and anti-fungals?

I don't see eating ethically as a black and white issue.  I think that there are so many other factors out there besides the "exploitation" of animals and animal products.  While eating a plant based diet may feed more people per acre, we produce more than enough to feed the world's population today.  The issues of feeding all those people are not just issues of what we grow, but what we allow for governments, distribution systems, corruption, etc.  The land used to grow veggies is limited, more marginal land can be grazed.  Vegetal waste products are also fed to animals.  There are several traditional cultures where most of the diet is meat based; almost all of them are in areas where agriculture is limited at best. 

For myself, some of the ethical considerations of food include things like: carbon footprint of shipping, environmental impact of waste, fertilizer, herbicides, ect; habitat degradation, antibiotic resistant microbes, water usage issues, especially concerning growing food crops in desert; monoculture, overfishing, etc...

There are a whole host of issues when ethics come into play.  No one can be perfect, and saying that someone's choices is less valid than your own very like arguing religion.  Especially when you start to use inflammatory language.

 

[dolphinlvr4]

Very interesting point. I read this thread more for education than anything else because I am not a vegan/ vegetarian. As I read on I see many sides to the issue but I think I'm more confused now than ever before. I understand n support ones personal preferences and or choices as I would hope the non meat eaters will support mine. This is a debate much as momsfolly has stated, like defending ones religion and it's been going on forever. The problem however, the facts n findings change from yr to yr so how do you really know which study is best? How do you decipher which one is the most accurate??

 

[silkiemomma9]

I think I answered most of those questions? I hope you didn't take anything I said as inflammatory? If it came across that why I apologize. I would never say someone wasn't as good as me. We are all perfect for who we are.
I worked cleaning kennels as a kid, then was a vet tech for awhile in a small animal practice, no farm/large animals. I went to grooming because of the amount of animals there everyday to die. I was just tired of holdin the pups and kittens that had to die. Always glad it was painless, but it wore on me.
I have done rescue since I was a child. My father was a wildlife rehab person. We had lots of raccoons, squirrels, skunks, 2deer, birds (usually bluejays:crows:robins-nothing fancy lol) and for three weeks we had a little fox kit. He had to get in to a home with other kits for them to be released together.
When I was about 20 or so, I ended up doing rescue with cats, then dogs, then some small animals here and there (rabbits/ferrets).
Where I live now, there are people who rent a barn near me who have cows. I've been here 9years, so I've been around them for a little while. Seen a few calves lost, one mother die while trying to have one, and general everyday stuff. They use a bull for their cows, show them every fall at county fairs. Auction most and slaughter them whenever. I really try not to pay attention, to that.
When I was in VA for a couple weeks, went to a farm sanctuary, where they grew the food for their animals and themselves. I don't recall actually going out to the field or anything though?
My parents always had a garden, I don't remember what they did or used in regards to pesticides. I use DE and have for as long as I can remember for pests. Last year I used it once when I seen some cabbage beetles. Mainly I do companion gardening and so far so good. Though I have to admit I rearranged things last year and that maybe why we got the beetles and my strawberries did not like the change. I'll work on it again this year. I use the compost from left over plants/reseed when I can. We make use of as many different types of leaves as we can when composting. I just have to becareful because I raked up pear and peach leaves and ended up with little seedlings in one of the compost piles, the kids hadn't turned for awhile.
By ethical vegan, I'm referring to why I am
Vegan, not other people. Some vegans as I stated before are for dietary reasons, though I know there are some strictly because of environmental issues as well. I try to make my carbon footprint as small as possible and I have a large family, so I feel it's something I must do. Not just in my diet, but by recycling materials, clothing, making our soaps, detergents et. I consign, goodwill and Freecycle away. Most of the others I know who do those things aren't Veggie or vegan, but want to do what they can for the environment, and some just do it to save $.
It's not so much being more ethical if you are veggie or vegan, there are thousands of ways to help protect the earth. Not supporting Monsanto in and of itself is considering ethical for people who only eat/use organic products. If someone asked them, why do you only use organic they could say they live that way to help save our food, or because they don't like corporations.
So we do things different based on moral or ethical reasons. I thought someone asked earlier on in the thread, why people where veggie or vegan, that's why I had answered it.
I agree new studies come out every other day, science changes for every study for 'a' there are two to support 'b'. I go with what's always worked for myself and my family, my love for animals and an understanding of how our bodies work, just makes me feel better. As does what everyone else does makes them feel good.
Hope those in the storms path tomorrow are ready and stay safe!

 

[HenFriend]

Sugar - as in processed is a no no for vegans, it's refined with 'bones'- I personally use Agava as a sweetener & of course fruit

lots of natural sugars.
http://www.naturalnews.com/030127_animal_ingredients_food.html

I didn't know this, will have to check labels. In the UK there is a big news story about convenience foods that were found to contain horsemeat in routine checks and shops have had to stop stocking these products until it is sorted out. Many of these were labelled as "beef" products, some also contained pork which has upset a lot of people who avoid it for religious reasons. Kind of scary when you can't rely on the labelling. Although I am veggie I find it strange that some meat eaters are making a big deal of this as it seems to be a more of a cultural thing as what is and is not acceptable as in many countries eating horse or even dog is normal even if we find it repulsive in the West. Even my boyfriend is glad he doesn't eat convenience foods and he is a meat eater.

 

[dolphinlvr4]

I think I answered most of those questions? I hope you didn't take anything I said as inflammatory? If it came across that why I apologize. I would never say someone wasn't as good as me. We are all perfect for who we are.
I worked cleaning kennels as a kid, then was a vet tech for awhile in a small animal practice, no farm/large animals. I went to grooming because of the amount of animals there everyday to die. I was just tired of holdin the pups and kittens that had to die. Always glad it was painless, but it wore on me.
I have done rescue since I was a child. My father was a wildlife rehab person. We had lots of raccoons, squirrels, skunks, 2deer, birds (usually bluejays:crows:robins-nothing fancy lol) and for three weeks we had a little fox kit. He had to get in to a home with other kits for them to be released together.
When I was about 20 or so, I ended up doing rescue with cats, then dogs, then some small animals here and there (rabbits/ferrets).
Where I live now, there are people who rent a barn near me who have cows. I've been here 9years, so I've been around them for a little while. Seen a few calves lost, one mother die while trying to have one, and general everyday stuff. They use a bull for their cows, show them every fall at county fairs. Auction most and slaughter them whenever. I really try not to pay attention, to that.
When I was in VA for a couple weeks, went to a farm sanctuary, where they grew the food for their animals and themselves. I don't recall actually going out to the field or anything though?
My parents always had a garden, I don't remember what they did or used in regards to pesticides. I use DE and have for as long as I can remember for pests. Last year I used it once when I seen some cabbage beetles. Mainly I do companion gardening and so far so good. Though I have to admit I rearranged things last year and that maybe why we got the beetles and my strawberries did not like the change. I'll work on it again this year. I use the compost from left over plants/reseed when I can. We make use of as many different types of leaves as we can when composting. I just have to becareful because I raked up pear and peach leaves and ended up with little seedlings in one of the compost piles, the kids hadn't turned for awhile.
By ethical vegan, I'm referring to why I am
Vegan, not other people. Some vegans as I stated before are for dietary reasons, though I know there are some strictly because of environmental issues as well. I try to make my carbon footprint as small as possible and I have a large family, so I feel it's something I must do. Not just in my diet, but by recycling materials, clothing, making our soaps, detergents et. I consign, goodwill and Freecycle away. Most of the others I know who do those things aren't Veggie or vegan, but want to do what they can for the environment, and some just do it to save $.
It's not so much being more ethical if you are veggie or vegan, there are thousands of ways to help protect the earth. Not supporting Monsanto in and of itself is considering ethical for people who only eat/use organic products. If someone asked them, why do you only use organic they could say they live that way to help save our food, or because they don't like corporations.
So we do things different based on moral or ethical reasons. I thought someone asked earlier on in the thread, why people where veggie or vegan, that's why I had answered it.
I agree new studies come out every other day, science changes for every study for 'a' there are two to support 'b'. I go with what's always worked for myself and my family, my love for animals and an understanding of how our bodies work, just makes me feel better. As does what everyone else does makes them feel good.
Hope those in the storms path tomorrow are ready and stay safe!

 

[dolphinlvr4]

 

[dolphinlvr4]

Let me begin with saying you didn't offend me at all. I feel you have eloquently explained your reasoning ( even tho you certainly owe no one an explanation) I was just curious as to what guidelines veg/ vegans follow because they seem to change alot. I was born n raised in cal on the coast and healthy was just what we did, never really thought it was odd not to eat meat everyday. I now live in the south and it seems like I'm an oddball. Lol. I do eat meat 2-3 times a week because I doubt I could go a whole mo w/o it, just not that disaplined I guess. I just get very confused cuz some say how could u eat a living thing while others ( vegans) won't even eat an egg. The hen is going to lay them so it feels wasteful n odd that they can't even eat those. Again, I respect all of the opinions and preferences of people, we all have the right to eat what we want. But I very much agree that "a" seems to have an agenda towards "b" when it comes down to which one is best. Good luck to all of u up north, I hope it doesn't get to ugly up there!!!

 

[silkiemomma9]

This snow is lovely - I say that very sarcasticly I'm guessing we are up to about 30 inches so far. It's 5:34am & I've got to get some sleep. It's about 2hrs of shoveling to get to my chickens and feral kitties I loaded them up about 8pm, but I can't stand them having dirty water lol