Vertical (gravity) vs. horizontal (spring loaded) watering nipples

[Leahs Mom]

Thank you. Very helpful.

And I'm gathering that you did use the horizontals during freezing weather and they stayed thawed with your heaters in the bucket from what you wrote.

 

[pdirt]

Thank you. Very helpful.

And I'm gathering that you did use the horizontals during freezing weather and they stayed thawed with your heaters in the bucket from what you wrote.

Yes, that is true. On other threads I (and others) have written quote a bit about keeping nipples thawed. For vertical nipples, only an aquarium heater worked well and it worked down to -9F, likely less with a bit of wind chill. I used 100W submersible (non-shattering, supposedly) aquarium heater but I have heard others using as little as 25W. I didn't want to take a chance since it can get quite cold here. The heater's lowest setting is about 60F, so the water was always quite warm, probably much warmer than it needed to be, but at least it didn't freeze. Next winter I will probably somehow insulate the bucket to conserve electricity.

For the horizontal nipples, I used a 250W stock tank de-icer. IIRC, it comes on at 35F and shuts off at 45F, so even though it's 250W, it takes less time to heat the water and doesn't heat it as much. It worked liked a charm with the horizontal nipples, though I wasn't able to test the setup below about 5F. Because of the design of the h-nipples, I expect (and have heard) they are naturally much less prone to freezing up than the vertical ones.

Both heaters are supposed to have auto shut-off safety features in the case that the bucket they are in runs dry. With both heaters, I had the bucket run low, low enough that a portion of the heater was exposed to air. Both of them, when discovered, steamed and sizzled. The aquarium heater also got hot enough to melt one of the rubber suction cups that secure it to the bottom of the bucket. Perhaps it hadn't reached the point to get hot enough to trip the safety auto shut-off, but I will certainly keep a better eye on water levels this winter.

I think I paid about $30 each for the aquarium heater and stock tank de-icer.

 

[iwiw60]

I am in Canada and I'm having trouble sourcing the horizontal nipples. Can anyone help? I would like to buy 5. I looked up Rich386 on ebay and he only ships to the US

Jess, I sent you a PM regarding the horizontal nipples and how to get them.

 

[Leahs Mom]

@pdirt
I have both types of heaters here. My main interest in these is for the winter if I can keep the waterers themselves thawed. I've tried a different type of cup/nipple waterer but the spring would freeze in the mechanism. The water in the buckets were fine - even very warm for the aquarium heater. But those springs would end up freezing and they couldn't get water from them. I always had to keep breaking them loose.

So...
I'm hoping the spring mechanisms on these stay thawed.

So far my birds haven't used them when I put them out but I did not remove the water pans since it's too hot for that right now. I'll try them in the fall when things cool down and see if they'll use them well before winter.


Winter is always my motivation. I don't want to mess with waterers all the time in the winter. And I don't like "open waterers" in the winter that they may accidentally step into and get frostbite. So I'll be very glad if these really work!

 

[pdirt]

@pdirt
I have both types of heaters here. My main interest in these is for the winter if I can keep the waterers themselves thawed. I've tried a different type of cup/nipple waterer but the spring would freeze in the mechanism. The water in the buckets were fine - even very warm for the aquarium heater. But those springs would end up freezing and they couldn't get water from them. I always had to keep breaking them loose.

So...
I'm hoping the spring mechanisms on these stay thawed.

I've heard from Rich386 (I don't think he's on BYC anymore, but his email addy is easy enough to find here) that the reason these horizontal nipples don't freeze is because no water actually ends up being left over in the nipple where the spring is. A small silicone seal, behind the nipple and spring, keeps the water out. When a chicken slurps up the water after activating the lever, none is left. At least that is what I have heard from others and it seems to hold true in my experience, at least down to 5F so far.

The vertical nipples do not have an internal spring, but gravity keeps water stored inside the nipple, where the moving parts are, all the time. Hence, easy to freeze.

 

[aart]

Quote:
Why not share it with us all?

 

[aart]

Quote:
Thank you for this documentation. The melting part is a bit scary.

ETA I wonder if using the heaters with a thermo block would add a level of safety?

 

[pdirt]

Why not share it with us all?

I'm not familiar with iwiw60, but if they are selling anything chicken related, they could get booted from BYC if they don't have an advertising contract with BYC. BYC is not free...I'm sure it costs thousands of dollars every year to run the site and the ads help do that, as I'm sure provide a living for the owners of BYC. I heard that rich386 got booted from BYC because he was unwilling to sign up for an (expensive) advertising contract. Too bad.

It's unfortunate...things often cost more because the sellers have to pay a lot of money to market and advertise their product/service. That cost gets padded into the cost of the goods/services. In my own business, I do a little advertising, but tend to rely upon word of mouth advertising. But since we're on the internet here, the forum for word of mouth is an ad-driven site known as BYC. Don't get me wrong, this is a great site with lots of users, many of them very wise and helpful. No one else has yet created a non-ad-driven (aka non-profit) chicken site that has attracted as many users. Not sure why, but here we are. I'd rather support the advertisers on BYC than elsewhere because they are helping provide such an awesome place to connect with others about all things chicken.

 

[pdirt]

Thank you for this documentation. The melting part is a bit scary.

ETA I wonder if using the heaters with a thermo block would add a level of safety?

I doubt it. If the outside temp is 12F, then the thermoblock is never going to shut off.

I just needed to be more mindful, ie check the water level every day when I go feed them. I needed to stop equating the convenience of not having to FILL the water every day with not having to CHECK the water level every day. It's an easy trap to fall into mentally, but I never let it happen again.

Don't let the fear stop you from using such a set up. Let the fear guide you to never let the water level drop below the level of the heater. If you go away for a few days, either have some one check it daily or every other day (when they gather eggs) or simply setup a bigger bucket or an extra one (with an extra heater).

I wouldn't trust one of the heated pans than you set a metal or plastic waterer on top of to be any less dangerous. Perhaps they don't get hot enough to cause a fire, but from what I've seen of them (haven't used one), they seem more dangerous/prone to problems.

 

[aart]

Quote:
I am using a 2-3 gal jug with HN's now. It's nice just to carry out a gallon jug of water each day to top it off so I am well established in the good habit of doing that.