Vertical (gravity) vs. horizontal (spring loaded) watering nipples

[Leahs Mom]

Different kind of water cups on there but this is what it looked like just for reference. At one point I turned it upside down and set it on top of the glass because I wanted to raise it up a little to get it closer to the cups.

 

[ktn65]

So the heater is inside the glass dish? That way it never runs dry? That is GENIUS!

 

[Leahs Mom]

My original intent was to keep the heater from sitting on plastic so that it didn't heat the plastic directly and release more toxins into the water than was necessary. Also was not wanting the heater to rest on the plastic and potentially melt it.

It does, of course, keep it under water too

 

[aart]

So the heater is inside the glass dish? That way it never runs dry? That is GENIUS!

My original intent was to keep the heater from sitting on plastic so that it didn't heat the plastic directly and release more toxins into the water than was necessary. Also was not wanting the heater to rest on the plastic and potentially melt it.

It does, of course, keep it under water too

I was thinking that the bowl might impede water circulation and keeping all the water warmed.....but keeping the heater covered in water is probably worth the loss of circulation aspect (if that even really matters-am probably overthinking it as usual )

 

[Leahs Mom]

At one point when it was really cold I inverted the bowl and set the heater on top of it so that it was closer to the cups to be sure that it kept things warmer.

That being said, the springs in those cups always froze since there was a bit of water on them every time water was released. It would build up and freeze.

Later on I switched to an aquarium heater that kept the water much warmer but the springs would still freeze.

That is what I'm concerned about with these vertical nipples. Not that the water will freeze, but hat the springs will have enough water on them to freeze and make them hard or impossible for the birds to break open to get the water.

 

[ktn65]

I was thinking that the bowl might impede water circulation and keeping all the water warmed.....but keeping the heater covered in water is probably worth the loss of circulation aspect (if that even really matters-am probably overthinking it as usual )

At one point when it was really cold I inverted the bowl and set the heater on top of it so that it was closer to the cups to be sure that it kept things warmer.

That being said, the springs in those cups always froze since there was a bit of water on them every time water was released. It would build up and freeze.

Later on I switched to an aquarium heater that kept the water much warmer but the springs would still freeze.

That is what I'm concerned about with these vertical nipples. Not that the water will freeze, but hat the springs will have enough water on them to freeze and make them hard or impossible for the birds to break open to get the water.

I, like aart tend to over think things, but looking at these horizontal nipples, the springs or on the exterior away from the water. Now water could get left inside the cup, but it is still a ways from the spring, so while it may be possible for the spring to freeze, I think it is unlikely. Also, watching my 3 week old chooks using the nipples, they do not push it in, but knock it sideways and then drink the water as it comes out, so I think there is little chance to have water accumulate.

Leah's Mom, you really inspired my, I'm going to run with the idea of the bowl in the bucket to keep water around the heater. Of course, I'll let you all know how it goes come February and January when we get hammered by the polar vortexes again.

 

[pdirt]

At one point when it was really cold I inverted the bowl and set the heater on top of it so that it was closer to the cups to be sure that it kept things warmer.

That being said, the springs in those cups always froze since there was a bit of water on them every time water was released. It would build up and freeze.

Later on I switched to an aquarium heater that kept the water much warmer but the springs would still freeze.

That is what I'm concerned about with these vertical nipples. Not that the water will freeze, but hat the springs will have enough water on them to freeze and make them hard or impossible for the birds to break open to get the water.

There are no springs in the vertical nipples. The internals of the vertical nipples comprise of a tiny metal rod (the nipple) attached to a ball bearing. The ball bearing rests on a metal ring to secure from leakage and allows water to pass when the bird moves the nipple. But no springs. But your point is that the nipples could freeze up because the internals of the nipple hold water that could freeze. That did happen to us with the stock tank heater but not with the aquarium heater.

I have not heard from anyone here on BYC (I've read a LOT, hours!) who have successfully used the watering cups in freezing temperatures. I think I may have read from one or two who live in more temperate temps than we do, where it dipped in the mid 20's occasionally, using a heating device, without much ill effect. But even if they did have a freeze-up, it would be short-lived, not days or weeks on end like we would have here. This is why I have never tried the cups you mention...I don't want to have to switch out to a new system in the middle of winter, especially when I have no good reason from others that it wouldn't freeze up.

I haven't tried it, but I have seen several folks on BYC who also installed a small submersible water pump into their bucket and this, along with a heating device, kept their V-nipples from freezing up. It hasn't been necessary for us and would just be an added expense and part to eventually fail.

Like I said in my recent post, I see the main drawback to the horizontal nipples is they cost 2-4x as much for an adequate watering setup, but have many more reasons why they are superior to the vertical nipples.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Okay..I need to clarify.

I used water cups that have springs loaded horizontal nipples. You can see the type on the photos with the heater in the glass. It was the SPRINGS in those that would get frozen. Not the water.

I haven't tried the HORIZONTAL nipples that we are discussing on this thread. But they DO have springs that could get coated just like the ones I had.

So..
I was concerned that they might freeze just like the ones that I had before. I haven't tried these. I will be trying them next winter to see how they do. I have them here and the design may be better because the springs are more recessed into the bucket than they are on the ones I used before. They are housed in the plastic part that screws in so the heat of the water around the spring housing my keep them thawed better. The ones I used before were not as protected and were not recessed into the bucket like these so the spring part really didn't have the advantage of having warm water around it's housing.

So...I'm hopeful on these. If my birds will use them Just have to do the winter experiment.




EDITED TO FIX A MISTAKE

 

[Leahs Mom]

PS: I'm not interested in vertical nipples at all

 

[aart]

I think she meant horizontal, not vertical.
......and yes, no way cup would stay thawed with just heated water.

What is a V-nipple?