Viable treatment for Marek's Disease.

[RoyalChick]

Thank you.

Since knowledge is power and results, whether good or ...not so much... add to that knowledge, I'd REALLY like to encourage anyone giving Chinese Skullcap a shot to report their results in an ongoing manner.

Other people are starting to report their experiences and they are all good. But I would like to encourage them to report unsuccessful or benign results as well. Even the clinical studies only reported an 80% success rate, so I'm sure that someone other than myself has had failures.

Additionally, knowing what you used for symptom support, if anything, would also be useful in developing a standard protocol that could be used universally and the expectations for recovery time could be documented.

Additionally, someone who makes herbal treatments could use the information to create a compounded treatment that could be purchased reliability and kept on hand.

The most hopeful thing I have is that after enough birds recover from Marek's and can still breed, we could breed Marek's resistant stock and the Marek's reign of terror would end. But that's a few years away as you need at least 3 generations of Marek's recovered birds to insure resistant stock. Or at least that's what they're saying in the research I'm reading.

I will. In my situation no news is good news.
I lost a pullet to a large tumor a couple of months ago. Necropsy said positive for Marek’s.
I have one unvaccinated chicken and 6 vaccinated. But they are all small hatchery chickens so vaccinated with turkey Marek’s which is very different from the vaccine used by the large hatcheries which is the chicken version.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Jeezus! Ya'll, I have some weird luck. My Millie Fleur hen has been coughing and sneezing and gurgling for a week now. Absolutely zero other symptoms. No lethargy, no lack of appetite, no diahrea, no off color poops...zip.

She's vaccinated, so if it was MG or Marek's, I'm thinking other symptoms could be masked. I used her skullcap dosage to treatment level (425 mg) and administered antibiotics assuming the coughing and sneezing is a respiratory infection.

It dawned on me this afternoon that she might have allergies. A quick Google confirmed chickens can indeed have seasonal allergies.

So, I gave it a shot. 1 ml of Children's benadryl later...she's clear as a bell.

I feel like an idiot.

 

[Chicalina]

Jeezus! Ya'll, I have some weird luck. My Millie Fleur hen has been coughing and sneezing and gurgling for a week now. Absolutely zero other symptoms. No lethargy, no lack of appetite, no diahrea, no off color poops...zip.

She's vaccinated, so if it was MG or Marek's, I'm thinking other symptoms could be masked. I used her skullcap dosage to treatment level (425 mg) and administered antibiotics assuming the coughing and sneezing is a respiratory infection.

It dawned on me this afternoon that she might have allergies. A quick Google confirmed chickens can indeed have seasonal allergies.

So, I gave it a shot. 1 ml of Children's benadryl later...she's clear as a bell.

I feel like an idiot.

Not an idiot at all. We aren't poultry specialising veterinarians. Just amateur enthusiasts. All learning by trial and error and sharing knowledge with each other on here.

You also need to be careful, as we all do, of assuming correlation is causation. The antibiotics may be working but if a course is not completed could lead to resistance. Or the benadryl could have only a temporary effect. Or she could just be having a good day coincidentally. Sometimes we rack our brains and research things to death and still never have the definitive answers we seek. Unfortunately chicken keeping is not like an episode of House where the doctor simply sherlocks his way to a nice tidy conclusion with 100% certainty!

Keep us posted on her progress, and I'd suggest continuing the antibiotics for a few days just to ensure a continuing dosage in case it is a bacterial infection, which on Occam's razor seems likely (or viral come to think of it) compared to allergies.

Also what bedding do you use and is it dusty would be the first thing to tackle. Dust, DE, other powders, straw/hay can all irritate nasal passages. I'm sure you've thought of all this though. Might not necessarily be an allergy, just an irritation. I'm guessing though, and you have all the info.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Not an idiot at all. We aren't poultry specialising veterinarians. Just amateur enthusiasts. All learning by trial and error and sharing knowledge with each other on here.

You also need to be careful, as we all do, of assuming correlation is causation. The antibiotics may be working but if a course is not completed could lead to resistance. Or the benadryl could have only a temporary effect. Or she could just be having a good day coincidentally. Sometimes we rack our brains and research things to death and still never have the definitive answers we seek. Unfortunately chicken keeping is not like an episode of House where the doctor simply sherlocks his way to a nice tidy conclusion with 100% certainty!

Keep us posted on her progress, and I'd suggest continuing the antibiotics for a few days just to ensure a continuing dosage in case it is a bacterial infection, which on Occam's razor seems likely (or viral come to think of it) compared to allergies.

Also what bedding do you use and is it dusty would be the first thing to tackle. Dust, DE, other powders, straw/hay can all irritate nasal passages. I'm sure you've thought of all this though. Might not necessarily be an allergy, just an irritation. I'm guessing though, and you have all the info.

She's already run a full course of antibiotics. Up until 2 days ago, she had no bedding. Her roost is carpeted and I change it out for a clean carpet every 3-4 days. (I have a whole Barbie Townhouse set up for some of my chooks).

It's dry as hell here and very dusty. But I have arch gardens and misters to keep dust down. I do have a bunch of plants flowering at the moment.

She didn't gurgle or sneeze all night. She started up again about 2 hours ago, but it isn't as bad as it was before. I'm pretty confident that it is allergies. I guess the Benadryl wore off.

 

[Coppy]

Freeze.

They will mildew in 4-5 days.

Does he have symptoms or just the virus? 80% of ALL fowl carry the virus. Most live normal lives until the virus becomes activated. Usually illness or stress.

Thank you so much for your reply !
I will freeze those skullcap balls

My roo is actually the 3rd one that got infected in my new flock . I lost the first two birds by the early August. How I wish I had found your post here sooner so that I could've tried the skullcap for them too and it might have saved them ...

I bought seven 2~3 months old chicks from 3 different breeders in late May this year. 10 days after they came to my house, the 1st bird (3 mo old) started limping.

The 2nd one (also 3 mo old. Came from the same breeder as the 1st one) started limping a month later. But I nursed both of them back to walking again by mid July.

Then their health started declining again and died on 8/6 and 8/8 . It was so heartbreaking. I took the 1st bird to the lab for necropsy. They said that she had lymphoma that was most likely caused by Marek's. Her sciatic nerves were enlarged. There were some masses too internally.

But now I have this 3rd one (roo) who evidently contracted it from the other two birds and started showing symptoms around 8/20, on the skullcap balls and he is recovering and really thriving!! So amazing !!

His both legs were weak (right leg more so than the left) and had labored breathing. But now he can walk normally, can run again, scratch the ground with both feet equally. I started feeding him the skullcap balls 8/24. Everyday with two doses.

His labored breathing is slightly still there but he doesn't open his mouth as wide as he did before. He only has the labored breathing when he is sitting. Maybe his chest is pressed when he is sitting and harder to breath.

I can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge. It changed this roo's life Thank you so much Hope he stays well for a long time.

I'm wondering if he could be put back with the rest of the flock again. Even if his virus is "dormant", he is still shedding the virus laden danders and it's risky to the other birds that are showing no symptoms ?

Sorry about the long post !

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Thank you so much for your reply !
I will freeze those skullcap balls

My roo is actually the 3rd one that got infected in my new flock . I lost the first two birds by the early August. How I wish I had found your post here sooner so that I could've tried the skullcap for them too and it might have saved them ...

I bought seven 2~3 months old chicks from 3 different breeders in late May this year. 10 days after they came to my house, the 1st bird (3 mo old) started limping.

The 2nd one (also 3 mo old. Came from the same breeder as the 1st one) started limping a month later. But I nursed both of them back to walking again by mid July.

Then their health started declining again and died on 8/6 and 8/8 . It was so heartbreaking. I took the 1st bird to the lab for necropsy. They said that she had lymphoma that was most likely caused by Marek's. Her sciatic nerves were enlarged. There were some masses too internally.

But now I have this 3rd one (roo) who evidently contracted it from the other two birds and started showing symptoms around 8/20, on the skullcap balls and he is recovering and really thriving!! So amazing !!

His both legs were weak (right leg more so than the left) and had labored breathing. But now he can walk normally, can run again, scratch the ground with both feet equally. I started feeding him the skullcap balls 8/24. Everyday with two doses.

His labored breathing is slightly still there but he doesn't open his mouth as wide as he did before. He only has the labored breathing when he is sitting. Maybe his chest is pressed when he is sitting and harder to breath.

I can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge. It changed this roo's life Thank you so much Hope he stays well for a long time.

I'm wondering if he could be put back with the rest of the flock again. Even if his virus is "dormant", he is still shedding the virus laden danders and it's risky to the other birds that are showing no symptoms ?

Sorry about the long post !

There's no reason he can't go back. The whole flock has it by now. It is transmitted by dust and dander.

That's why my flock is on a preventative dose daily in their feed.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Thank you so much for your reply !
I will freeze those skullcap balls

My roo is actually the 3rd one that got infected in my new flock . I lost the first two birds by the early August. How I wish I had found your post here sooner so that I could've tried the skullcap for them too and it might have saved them ...

I bought seven 2~3 months old chicks from 3 different breeders in late May this year. 10 days after they came to my house, the 1st bird (3 mo old) started limping.

The 2nd one (also 3 mo old. Came from the same breeder as the 1st one) started limping a month later. But I nursed both of them back to walking again by mid July.

Then their health started declining again and died on 8/6 and 8/8 . It was so heartbreaking. I took the 1st bird to the lab for necropsy. They said that she had lymphoma that was most likely caused by Marek's. Her sciatic nerves were enlarged. There were some masses too internally.

But now I have this 3rd one (roo) who evidently contracted it from the other two birds and started showing symptoms around 8/20, on the skullcap balls and he is recovering and really thriving!! So amazing !!

His both legs were weak (right leg more so than the left) and had labored breathing. But now he can walk normally, can run again, scratch the ground with both feet equally. I started feeding him the skullcap balls 8/24. Everyday with two doses.

His labored breathing is slightly still there but he doesn't open his mouth as wide as he did before. He only has the labored breathing when he is sitting. Maybe his chest is pressed when he is sitting and harder to breath.

I can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge. It changed this roo's life Thank you so much Hope he stays well for a long time.

I'm wondering if he could be put back with the rest of the flock again. Even if his virus is "dormant", he is still shedding the virus laden danders and it's risky to the other birds that are showing no symptoms ?

Sorry about the long post !

Secondary benefit is that any that develop the disease and fully recover will be resistant to additional infections and will pass that resistance on to any offspring. If you can manage to breed 3 generations of infected birds who recovered, those birds will have resistance bordering immunity.

I am shooting for a line of resistant birds. It's years away.

 

[Coppy]

There's no reason he can't go back. The whole flock has it by now. It is transmitted by dust and dander.

That's why my flock is on a preventative dose daily in their feed.

 

[Coppy]

I thought so too and when the first 2 birds recovered enough to be able to walk I put them out in the same run with the rest of the flock (made a separate section with fence for them so they won't get picked on) , then the rooster got infected

Also, I have another problem
I have one more rooster . The breeders told me that they were all pullets but it turned out that two of them were cockerel . They grew up together so they were all getting along fine, but now this roo with Marek's were away for a while , the other roo will bully him I'm sure ... I guess I have to keep him in the separate section.

As for the preventative dose, I should give each bird in the flock a skullcap ball every day? Or just sprinkle some skullcap powder on the feed ?

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

I thought so too and when the first 2 birds recovered enough to be able to walk I put them out in the same run with the rest of the flock (made a separate section with fence for them so they won't get picked on) , then the rooster got infected

Also, I have another problem
I have one more rooster . The breeders told me that they were all pullets but it turned out that two of them were cockerel . They grew up together so they were all getting along fine, but now this roo with Marek's were away for a while , the other roo will bully him I'm sure ... I guess I have to keep him in the separate section.

As for the preventative dose, I should give each bird in the flock a skullcap ball every day? Or just sprinkle some skullcap powder on the feed ?

If you put him in the segregated pen the others were in, they may reestablish their prior relationship.

The preventative dose goes in their feed. All feed. Crumble, pellets and/ or scratch. I calculated the measurements to be 3 tablespoons and 1 teaspoon of powder per 50lbs of feed. I mix it in and add a little oil to make it stick to the feed.