VIDEO - Hen back from Coma. Botulism from eating larva in meat left by compost pile

[cedarsurf]

Aloha,

Click for Video - Hen back from "Dead"

I've recently started posting videos following our baby chicks that are being raised by a feral Hawaiian Jungle Fowl. These past few weeks we also had a bad turn of events with our 8 existing chickens.

They got into a pile of maggots that were eating away at some meat left by our compost pile. When we first noticed them eating the maggots we thought it shouldn't be an issue as we've heard of feeding chickens larva before. But what we didn't realize is that larva and meat that has been in contact with soil can contain botulism.

The day after they got into the pile 5 of the 8 chickens fell ill with what I could only describe as an incredibly deep coma. If you weren't paying close enough attention you could confuse them for dead. By end of day one 4/5 had passed. The video follows the one survivor.

Lessons learned. NEVER let chickens eat maggots that have been eating meat in contact with soil or a mulch/compost pile. Probably basic knowledge but we didn't know.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thank you for the information and video. A sobering warning for us all.

I'm sorry to hear of your losses, but glad to see that Guuk Gai is doing well and has recovered.

 

[Regina Larsen]

Aloha,

Click for Video - Hen back from "Dead"

I've recently started posting videos following our baby chicks that are being raised by a feral Hawaiian Jungle Fowl. These past few weeks we also had a bad turn of events with our 8 existing chickens.

They got into a pile of maggots that were eating away at some meat left by our compost pile. When we first noticed them eating the maggots we thought it shouldn't be an issue as we've heard of feeding chickens larva before. But what we didn't realize is that larva and meat that has been in contact with soil can contain botulism.

The day after they got into the pile 5 of the 8 chickens fell ill with what I could only describe as an incredibly deep coma. If you weren't paying close enough attention you could confuse them for dead. By end of day one 4/5 had passed. The video follows the one survivor.

Lessons learned. NEVER let chickens eat maggots that have been eating meat in contact with soil or a mulch/compost pile. Probably basic knowledge but we didn't know.

Glad she made it. One of my JG girls last year had a case of botulism (my fault). We got her through it but it sucked. Im glad you posted this bit its great info to have.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Some of my junglefowl hybrids as well as some blue face American games got botulism last year. Those that got it mostly didn't survive. I think 2 survived and I have still have them.

I don't worry about it. Botulism is a leading cause of death in wild birds in North America. Its simply a part of birds living a semi-feral lifestyle. Many of mine don't get it and I figure those have the sense or the perception to avoid it. I have noticed that many of my chickens will refuse to eat maggots that come from under wet boards during the height of the rainy season. Survival of the fittest.

 

[raingarden]

What are the symptoms of Botulism? Does it have to be diagnosed by a vet?

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

It looks a lot like Mareks. It takes a test for the toxin to know for sure. Best way to discern in from Mareks in the field, besides looking inside a chicken and confirming no Mareks tumors, is the speed by which it comes on and the nature of the paralysis. It starts as extreme lethargy for a few hours that quickly becomes full paralysis. Sometimes the chicken looks like a dying cockroach flipped on its back at the very end of it. One of the birds I lost to it last year was a pure-bred Liege stag I brought on from my brother's farm. He was fine when I released him. After the first day on free range he was stumbling as he got right into whatever was causing it around my farm. It could have been bad maggots or it could have been the big pond in my front yard that had a lot of decaying vegetable material in the shallows that all my poultry drinks from.

Botulism happens in hot, wet, environments. It can come from direct decay the chickens eat, from insects that themselves eat the decay, or from bad water. Last year we had an abnormally wet spring that waterlogged the ground, yet not enough rain to fill my pond up. As where I didn't top my pond off as I normally do via my well or the irrigation pump, it created an area of shallows the chickens could access that was only an inch or two deep and very hot in the sun. That's usually how wild waterfowl get it, by eating materials from hot, stagnant, shallows.

I never figured out what the direct cause was. I just noticed that it was only effecting certain birds and finally let it go instead of fretting over something I couldn't control. There's no way to free range my birds in a hot, subtropical, mostly woods and swamp, environment and not have to deal with it. I also had to deal with a lot of coccidiosis last year. This year I've lost none to botulism and very few chicks to cocci. I suspect it comes and goes in waves over the years depending on conditions.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Now what I do puzzle over is whether some birds can avoid it or whether some are immune. It had the worst effect on the blueface gamefowl I brought onto the farm as hatching eggs, losing most of the brood I hatched to it as young adults when they went on free range. I also lost many of my liege x aseel cross chicks, one adult Liege, and one Liege stag.

In Europe botulism is often called "grass sickness" and is associated with fresh grass after warm-weather rains, although the exact relationship between fresh grass and the toxin is unknown.

Both Mareks and botulism were historically called "range paralysis," leading me to think the two have been confused with each other. I suspect that many backyard-diagnoses of Mareks based on behavioral symptoms alone are often cases of botulism.

As it relates to grass, I was definitely able to identify grass as a vector of the coccidiosis by introducing freshly cut grass to brooders and coops and observing certain chicks get it upon ingesting the grass, then getting bloody stool, and then recovering when given Corrid. That was my pure cracker chicks of the 4th generation that were so prone to it, while Cracker x American crosses and other Cracker crosses would not get it when exposed to grass or turned out to free range. I was never able to so isolate the botulism vector. I gave many coop birds water from my pond and observed no ill effect. Although the botulism could have been in pockets in the pond in shallower water than I dipped from. The most suspicious thing was the refusal of many of the chickens to eat maggots exposed in wet filth in one of the muddy runs after a thunderstorm. One chicken that did so eat the maggots got sick but I cannot remember to the degree. I think it died but the more I think about it the more unsure I am. That was the closest I could get to proving it was the maggots or other insects. But there was also a particular mud puddle that normally didn't exist but for the heavy rain we were getting, and I did notice that a chicken that drank from the puddle got it and died. So I also couldn't rule out it coming from the soil.

 

[Folly's place]

Clostridium botulinum is a bacteria that lives in soil and grows in anaerobic conditions, as in rotting meat or improperly canned veggies or meat. A tiny amount of the toxin it produces is fatal, as it causes paralysis of the diaphram, among other things.
Never put meat scraps in the compost where critters can reach them!
The toxin is tasteless and colorless, also not helpful. Likely there are varying tiny amounts at the site, so some birds get enough, and some don't.
Another situation where a ventilator is necessary, and antibiotics to kill the infection. Dogs are vulnerable, as there's nothing some dog won't eat...
Also the Clostridium bacteria sporulate, so live long in the environment.
Mary

 

[raingarden]

Wow. Thank you @Florida Bullfrog and @Folly's place. That was great.

 

[KatieMacDC]

So, if I put plate scrapings into a thriving BSF bin, no contact with soil, could any meat be contaminated with botulism and the larvae are then toxic to the hens?