Washingtonians Come Together! Washington Peeps

[Chickielady]

HI GUYS !!!
jUST STOPPING IN TO SAY howdy AND MY DESK SHOULD BE DONE TOMORROW SO i CAN GET THIS COMPUTER OFF THE FLOOR....IT IS KILLING MY BACK TO SIT HERE UNDER THE DESK...lol
nOT to mention it is practically impossible to type...........................

WE ARE going to the show...............and bringing black Jersey Giant Cock, 2 blue Jersey Giant hens and 1 black Jersey Giant hen.........................and some eggs that have been ordered.

I'll try my best to get back tomorrow morning !!!

 

[Chickielady]

Remember someone here was wondering about showing her Barnevelders but it was hard when it was a 2 day show…….The Monroe show can be a coop in and out the same day if you are not too far away…..I apologize i couldn't find your post to PM.

A few more weeks and you'll have your 4 year badge too !!

 

[DiamondDust]

Yikes! The show is just two weeks away and the entry form is due in two days! Okay, printing entry form now...!!!

 

[BGMatt]

Hope it's a good show, I have to miss Monroe this year, double booked myself and am teaching a backyard poultry class that day.

 

[Totalcolour]

@Chickielady - are you going to Monroe? I'll have to do some looking to find the information. Although, I think I'll be in the middle of hatching - wouldn't want to miss that

 

[CarolynF]

I'm under the impression that "hatchery" birds are bred for their production values (thriftiness, egg laying, meat production) as opposed to show birds which are bred primarily for their looks.

Well, I got White rock and white leghorns from one hatchery a few years ago and so-so at egg laying...the vet did an autopsy and found that two of them had messed up egg areas...put the rest of the layers in the freezer for dog food......so that probably explained why the rest were poor payers or didn't lay...we think it was over breeding......but I got leghorns from Ideal and breeders and they are laying machines....so I steer away from the big names and get from Ideal or breeders.

Not all show birds are bred just for looks.

Common misconception. There are some breeders who breed for looks only (but that makes them just as bad as the hatchery, just the other end of the spectrum), but the vast majority of true breeders keep the original production aspects of the birds intact. Just like with buying any other animal, do your research on your source before you buy.

My first Faverolles were from Ideal and they were good layers and true to color unlike many seen today. Wonder if it would be nice to send notes letting hatcheries know when they do good or if the poultry isn't even close to standard?????

First, I'm not aiming my comments at those I've quoted, I just included their posts to keep the thread of the conversation together.

As far as Ideal and their dedication to "quality", I just copied this directly from their website. After you read it, assuming you know the difference between an EE and an Ameraucana, tell me what you think of 1) their knowledge of the breeds they sell, 2) their honesty about the breeds they sell, or 3) their dedication to producing quality chicks.
Also, I think it's important for people to understand that the quality of an individual bird isn't defined by just it's appearance or by the number of eggs it produces in the first year or two. IMHO good quality birds shouldn't be dieing, consistently, at 18-24 months due to tumors, egg laying issues, weak or defective organs, etc., yet that's what I keep hearing people say about the chickens they've gotten from large commercial hatcheries. Hatcheries may breed for production and thriftiness, but if they create health issues or breed out hardiness and the meat production characteristics of a dual purpose breed, then they can't be said to offer good quality stock. Temperament is also a breed characteristic isn't it even if it's not in the SOP, such as in a Heritage RIR?

I know that for dogs the "show" version of a dog is a far cry from what it was originally bred for. And the "show" standards have changed over the years to conform to modern aesthetics. (Not talking about "working dog" shows here) But with farm animals such as Black Angus cattle, sheep, goats, or chickens, isn't the SOP (breed standard) kept fairly close to what the breed was developed for, be it meat, milk, wool, eggs, or dual purpose? It's a question I've often wondered about.

 

[BGMatt]

First, I'm not aiming my comments at those I've quoted, I just included their posts to keep the thread of the conversation together.

As far as Ideal and their dedication to "quality", I just copied this directly from their website. After you read it, assuming you know the difference between an EE and an Ameraucana, tell me what you think of 1) their knowledge of the breeds they sell, 2) their honesty about the breeds they sell, or 3) their dedication to producing quality chicks.
Also, I think it's important for people to understand that the quality of an individual bird isn't defined by just it's appearance or by the number of eggs it produces in the first year or two. IMHO good quality birds shouldn't be dieing, consistently, at 18-24 months due to tumors, egg laying issues, weak or defective organs, etc., yet that's what I keep hearing people say about the chickens they've gotten from large commercial hatcheries. Hatcheries may breed for production and thriftiness, but if they create health issues or breed out hardiness and the meat production characteristics of a dual purpose breed, then they can't be said to offer good quality stock. Temperament is also a breed characteristic isn't it even if it's not in the SOP, such as in a Heritage RIR?

I know that for dogs the "show" version of a dog is a far cry from what it was originally bred for. And the "show" standards have changed over the years to conform to modern aesthetics. (Not talking about "working dog" shows here) But with farm animals such as Black Angus cattle, sheep, goats, or chickens, isn't the SOP (breed standard) kept fairly close to what the breed was developed for, be it meat, milk, wool, eggs, or dual purpose? It's a question I've often wondered about.

Ideal's description is inaccurate. I could mention that Ameraucana's must come in standardized color, but that would tick off people with project colors, but instead I will mention that regardless of feather color a true Ameraucana will lay blue eggs, not "eggs of many colors and shades including blue and green." This means they are also dishonest. The Ameraucana also like every other breed has very precise description of body shape and size, including weight which most hatchery birds do not live up to. So I find them lacking in knowledge, honesty, and quality. I also agree with everything else you wrote in this paragraph.

This last paragraph, I wish I could high five you through the internet. I think this is where a lot of confusion comes in, but you're absolutely right, the poultry standards DO NOT CHANGE. They were written when the bird was admitted which for the vast majority of the breeds (not necessarily varieties, but breeds) were used for production, be it small farm or larger operations. The form described in the standard is NOT for looks. It is to enable function. The bird SHOULD be able to do everything it was meant to do if it meets the Standard. Some breeders neglect that aspect and it's a shame. Just like the "higher production" hatchery animals often have health issues because their body is NOT meant to do what it does. In my considerable experience it is far easier to change production aspects from a line of birds that already has the form, than to take birds that have the production and give them the form.

Even aspects of the standard that you might not think matter, often matter. For example: In Rhode Island Reds the Standard calls for a medium width feather, which you might think is cosmetic, but actually they discovered that the birds with wider feathers or narrower feathers didn't produce as well. Something somewhere in that mess of DNA the two genes were linked.

 

[Totalcolour]

@CarolynF , I don't think the hatcheries (some anyway) are being dishonest, I think they are ill informed (as are a lot of "breeders").

I saw a website not long ago: I was looking for white Muscovies. On their site they talked about the caruncles on the "head" of the duck (saying it was the large crest of feathers on top of the head). I wrote to them and told them that they were mistaken, and that it was the red patches on skin on the face. They wrote back, laughing at my ignorance, telling me they had seen it on the web and had cut and pasted the information, so it must be true. I sent the relevant info back, scanned from the SOP, and they ignored it.

Some people don't want to be educated, and some simply are dishonest. Early on I had birds from Ideal, and while not SQ, they were nice birds, and good layers. If I simply wanted good layers again, I wouldn't have a problem going back to Ideal.

I think the most we can do, is write to them and send correct information. I also think we all need to double check our own information before we pass it along to someone else. We can be misinformed as well!

 

[CoopDeDoo]

I have read many positive comments regarding using Hog Fuel in runs - just wondering before I purchase a yard or two if anyone had any negative experiences with it?

 

[Slinglings]

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