We need help from the experts...

[ozexpat]

Hi

By day 8 you should be able to see more than a spot. If you have 2 eggs that look normal, then you have a baseline.

Unless you have had spikes in temps over 104, eliminate temp as an issue.

Humidity, while important, does not show its effects until the end of the hatch. the same goes with turning.

The first thing that I would question is poultry nutrition,

What are you feeding your birds?

The second is contaminants.

 

[gypsy767]

Hi

By day 8 you should be able to see more than a spot. If you have 2 eggs that look normal, then you have a baseline.

Unless you have had spikes in temps over 104, eliminate temp as an issue.

Humidity, while important, does not show its effects until the end of the hatch. the same goes with turning.

The first thing that I would question is poultry nutrition,

What are you feeding your birds?

The second is contaminants.

Oz....the temps have been well within range. The birds, American standard pure breed BO's are are very healthy (total 16 hens 1 rooster) and they get about 3 cups total cracked corn/BOSS mix morning evening as scratch. They have layena available 24/7 plus oyster shells and/or eggs shells 24/7. This birds all came from a reputable hatchery and only the rooster (as a cockerel months ago) has been introduced to the flock. They get "meticulous" care...they are spoiled to a fault. The rooster is a treasure...87.5% english orpington. The two eggs that look viable are a good benchmark....trying to look at every aspect we can think of....thanks to you and your subscribers for taking a look.
chuck

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Of course you've a few days to wait but I noticed you never said what you were using for a thermometer. Are you relying on the Brinsea to be spot on? They cost enough so one would think but I don't trust anyone/anything. Check it with an oral thermometer from your medicine cabinet. They are as accurate as one can get for the money and we all have them so they are free. It's a good idea to use them to double check/confirm other measuring devices.

 

[ozexpat]

You are missing something.

I dont know what yet.

In this situation I would see if I could get 10 eggs from a buddy and run them as a control against my eggs.

I would also open the clears to look for any signs of cell division.

I am not a fan of scratch feeds as they are not complete feed and may dilute trace nutrients in a complete feed.

 

[casportpony]

http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8127.pdf


-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

http://msucares.com/poultry/reproductions/trouble.html
Poultry: Reproduction & Incubation
Trouble Shooting Failures with Egg Incubation
When incubation of eggs fails, indications are often available that a well trained professional uses for diagnosing the causes for failure. The information listed below includes the more common symptoms for incubation failures, the causes for each symptom, and the recommended corrective measures. A good incubation publication is available from your local County Agent's office or the Poultry Extension Department at Mississippi State University to help in analyzing the incubation procedure. It explains the artificial incubating process more in detail. Ask for MCES Publication 1182, Hatching Quality Chicks.
Symptoms of incubation/breeder management problems include:

• Clear eggs with no visible embryonic development.
• Blood rings in incubated eggs.
• Many dead embryos at an early stage.
• Chicks fully formed, but dead without pipping.
• Pipped eggs, but died without hatching.
• Early hatching.
• Late hatching or not hatching uniformly.
• Sticky embryos.
• Embryos sticking or adhering to shell.
• Crippled and malformed chicks.
• Abnormal, weak, or small chicks.
• Chicks with labored breathing.
• Large, soft-bodied mushy chicks.
• Rough or unhealed navels on chicks.
• Short down on chicks.
• Excessive yellow down color.

Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Clear Eggs with no embryonic development (infertiles) Males undernourished Follow a recommended feeding program to provide adequate nutrition. Replace underweight males with vigorous ones
Too few males Increase the number of males in the flock.
Seasonal decline in fertility Use young cockerels more resistant to environmental stress.
Competition among breeding males Do not use too many males. Rear all males together. Place temporary partitions within large pens.
Diseased flock Conduct an approved disease control program.
Frozen combs and wattles Provide comfortable housing. Properly select and maintain drinking fountains.
Old males Replace with younger males.
Selected mating in pens Artificially inseminate infertile hens. Replace males in the pen/house.
Male sterility Replace males in the pen/house.
Crowded breeders Provide recommended floor space, at least 3 ft²/bird.
Improper artificial insemination techniques or use of old/over-diluted semen. Follow recommendations of primary breeder company.
Eggs damaged by environment Gather eggs frequently (at least once daily).
Eggs stored too long or incorrectly Store eggs at 50-60 degrees F. and 60% relative humidity. Incubate eggs within 7 days of lay.

Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Blood rings Improper storage Follow recommended egg storage and gathering recommendations.
Improper incubation temperatures Check thermometer accuracy and incubator functions. Follow recommended temperature settings.
Improper breeder nutrition Feed breeders a diet with balanced nutrient levels.
Improper fumigation Follow fumigation recommendations.



Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Many dead embryos at early stages Improper incubation temperatures (usually too high) Follow recommended incubation temperatures.
Improper egg turning Turn at least 3 times daily.
Inherited low hatchability Avoid cross breeding. May need to secure different breeding stock.
Improper ventilation Increase ventilation rate in incubator and/or room, but avoid drafts. Add oxygen at high altitudes.
Pullorum disease or other salmonelloses Use eggs from disease-free sources. Have NPIP representatives blood-test the breeder flock.
Improper nutrition of breeders Provide a well-balanced nutritional diet to breeders.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Pipped eggs, but died without hatching Insufficient moisture Increase humidity (wet-bulb temperature) during the hatching period.
Improper ventilation Increase ventilation rate in incubator and/or room, but avoid drafts.
Improper setting of eggs causing malpositioned embryos Set eggs with small end down. Turn eggs properly but avoid turning within 3 days of hatching.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Early hatching (may have bloody navels) High incubation temperatures Follow recommended incubation temperatures. Check equipment for proper function. Guard against electrical surges or high incubator room temperatures.
Improper egg storage Store eggs at 50-60 degrees F. and 60% R.H. Turn at least 3 times daily.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Late hatching or not hatching uniformly Low incubation temperatures Follow recommended incubation temperatures.
Warm and cool spots in incubator due to faulty design Contact incubator company or obtain a different incubator design.
Old or improperly stored eggs Gather eggs frequently, cool immediately and store eggs properly. Do not store longer than 7 days.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Sticky embryos (embryos may be smeared with egg contents) High average incubation humidity Follow recommended incubation humidity. Check size of air cell as an indicator for adjusting humidity condition.
Low incubation temperature Follow recommended temperature settings.
Lethal genes Avoid cross breeding. May need to secure different breeding stock.
Inadequate ventilation Increase ventilation rate in incubator and/or room, but avoid drafts.
Improper fumigation of eggs Fumigate eggs by following the procedure carefully.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Embryos sticking or adhering to shell Low incubation humidity (especially during hatching) Increase incubation humidity by increasing water evaporation. Embryos dried too much.
Excessive ventilation rate Reduce ventilation rate but maintain minimum air exchange to prevent suffocation of embryos.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Crippled and malformed chicks Improper incubation temperatures (usually too high) Follow recommended incubation temperatures.
Low incubation humidity Increase incubation humidity by increasing water evaporation. Embryos dried too much.
Improper egg setting position or turning during incubation Set eggs with small ends down. Turn eggs at least 3 times daily. Do not turn eggs within 3 days of hatching.
Heredity Proper culling and breeding practices will reduce problems.
Slick hatching trays Use trays with wire floors or place crinoline on hatching surface.
Improper nutrition of breeders Provide a well-balanced nutritional diet to breeders.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Abnormal, weak, or small chicks High incubation or hatching temperatures Follow recommended incubation temperatures.
Small eggs hatch small chicks Set only standard or large sized eggs.
Insufficient incubation humidity Maintain recommended humidity for species of bird incubated..
Improper ventilation in hatcher unit Increase ventilation rate, but avoid drafts.
Diseased or poorly conditioned breeder flock Use eggs from disease-free sources only. Have NPIP representatives blood-test the breeder flock.
Improper nutrition of breeders Provide a well-balanced nutritional diet to breeders (especially vitamin levels).
Excessive fumigation in hatcher Fumigate using proper procedures.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Chicks with labored breathing Excessive use of fumigant Follow recommended fumigation procedures.
Respiratory diseases Check disease status of breeder flock. Conduct a thorough cleanup and disinfection of incubator and hatching facilities.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Large, soft-bodied mushy chicks; dead on trays; bad odor Low average incubation temperaturePoor ventilation Follow recommended incubation temperatures.Increase ventilation rate in incubator and/or room, but avoid drafts.
Navel infection (Omphalitis) Clean and disinfect incubator and hatching units between settings of eggs. Maintain dry hatching trays. Properly store and fumigate eggs.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Rough or unhealed navels Improper incubation temperatures Follow recommended incubation temperatures.
High hatching humidity Maintain proper humidity.
Navel infection (Omphalitis) Clean and disinfect incubator and hatching units between settings of eggs. Maintain dry hatching trays. Properly store and fumigate eggs.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Short down on chicks High incubation temperatures Follow recommended incubation temperatures.
Low incubation humidity Follow suggestions to correct insufficient humidity.
Excessive ventilation Reduce vent openings to restrict but maintain adequate air exchange.
Holding chicks in hatcher too long after hatching Remove all chicks as soon as fluffy but within 24 hours after hatching.
Symptoms Probable Cause Corrective Measures

Excessive yellow coloring of down Improper and excessive fumigation in hatcher unit Follow recommended fumigation procedures.

 

[casportpony]

I found this very interesting webpage:
http://www.avianaquamiser.com/archives/2011/09/

I have no idea if this is a one off issue or if other people have found this to be true.

Quote:

Does egg location in the incubator affect a chick's time of hatch and hatchability? In still air incubators, you'll find relatively wide temperature variations throughout the incubator, but even our top of the line Brinsea Octagon 20 Advance Incubator shows differences in hatch rate related to egg location in the tray. The picture to the right is the summary of my results from two hatches, suggesting that eggs in the center are less likely to hatch than those around the edges, and my notes show that central eggs also tend to hatch later.

The fan in our incubator keeps air moving, so you would think that all of the eggs would be equally warm. However, a reader on our homesteading blog suggested that radiant heat from the central heating element preferentially warms the eggs directly underneath. His hypothesis makes a lot of sense, as does his solution of using some kind of barrier like aluminum foil below the heating unit to block the radiant heat while allowing the fans to continue to circulate warmed air. It looks like I'm going to have to do some experiments with moving thermometers around inside the incubator to find out whether there really are high temperature pockets and how to fix them.

Ourchicken waterer takes the guesswork out of POOP-free water.​

​

Posted early Friday morning, September 2nd, 2011Tags:chicken incubation

 

[ozexpat]

No embryonic development causes


Infertile egg
Rough handling of eggs
Incubation temperature too high
Incubation temperature too low
Eggs stored too long
Eggs stored improperly
Breeders stressed
Too many hens per rooster
Old or unhealthy hens or males
Inbreeding
Disease
Biotin deficiency
Manganese deficiency
Copper deficiency

 

[gypsy767]

Of course you've a few days to wait but I noticed you never said what you were using for a thermometer. Are you relying on the Brinsea to be spot on? They cost enough so one would think but I don't trust anyone/anything. Check it with an oral thermometer from your medicine cabinet. They are as accurate as one can get for the money and we all have them so they are free. It's a good idea to use them to double check/confirm other measuring devices.

Good question...I'm using the brinsea thermometer that is supplied with the bator...also put 3 other standard accurite's along side during the test run. One of them was a degree off so ditched that one for other use. The oral thermometer's we have are digital and not suitable put inside the bator (humidity) plus they turn off after a little while. But I am pretty comfortable that we have an accurate temp inside the bator. We just keep plugging along...checking everything we can and any advice that we receive here. Thank you for responding...!

 

[casportpony]

Here's more... makes one, myself included, wanna take a good look at the feed.

Nutrients

Deficiency Signs

References
Vitamin A

Death at about 48 hours of incubation from failure to develop the circulatory system; abnormalities of kidneys, eyes, and skeleton.

Asmundson and Kratzer, 1952; Thompson et al., 1965; Heine et al., 1985
Vitamin D

Death at about 18 or 19 days of incubation, with malpositions, soft bones, and with a defective upper mandible prominent.

Sunde et al., 1978; Narbaitz and Tsang, 1989
Vitamin E

Early death at about 84 to 96 hours of incubation, with hemorrhaging and circulatory failure (implicated with selenium).

Card et al., 1930; Latshaw and Osman, 1974
Vitamin K

No physical deformities from a simple deficiency, nor can they be provoked by antivitamins, but mortality occurs between 18 days and hatching, with variable hemorrhaging.

Griminger, 1964; Hauschka and Reid, 1978a
Thiamin

High embryonic mortality during emergence but no obvious symptoms other than polyneuritis in those that survive.

Polin et al., 1962; Charles et al., 1972
Riboflavin

Mortality peaks at 60 hours, 14 days, and 20 days of incubation, with peaks prominent early as deficiency becomes severe. Altered limb and mandible development, dwarfism, and clubbing of down are defects expressed by embryo.

Romanoff and Bauernfeind, 1942; Landauer, 1967
Niacin

Embryo readily synthesizes sufficient niacin from tryptophan. Various bone and beak malformations occur when certain antagonists are administered during incubation.

Snell and Quarles, 1941; Landauer, 1956; Caplan, 1972
Biotin

High death rate at 19 to 21 days of incubation, and embryos have parrot beak, chondrodystrophy, several skeletal deformities, and webbing between the toes.

Cravens et al., 1994; Couch et al., 1947
Pantothenic acid

Deaths appear around 14 days of incubation, although marginal levels may delay problems until emergence. Variable subcutaneous hemorrhaging and edema; wirey down in poults.

Kratzer et al., 1955; Beer et al., 1963
Pyridoxine

Early embryonic mortality based on antivitamin use.

Landauer, 1967
Folic acid

Mortality at about 20 days of incubation. The dead generally appear normal, but many have bent tibiotarsus, syndactyly, and mandible malformations. In poults, mortality at 26 to 28 days of incubation with abnormalities of extremities and circulatory system.

Sunde et al., 1950a; Kratzer et al., 1956a
Vitamin B12

Mortality at about 20 days of incubation, with atrophy of legs, edema, hemorrhaging, fatty organs, and head between thighs malposition.

Olcese et al., 1950; Ferguson et al., 1955
Manganese

Peak deaths prior to emergence. Chondrodystrophy, dwarfism, long bone shortening, head malformations, edema, and abnormal feathering are prominent.

Lyons and Insko, 1937
Zinc

Deaths prior to emergence, and the appearance of rumplessness, depletion of vertebral column, eyes underdeveloped, and missing limbs.

Kienholz et al., 1961; Turk, 1965
Copper

Deaths at early blood stage with no malformations.

Bird et al., 1963
Iodine

Prolongation of hatching time, reduced thyroid size, and incomplete abdominal closure.

Rogler et al., 1959a, b
Iron

Low hematocrit; low blood hemoglobin; poor extra-embryonic circulation in candled eggs.

Dewar et al., 1974; Morck and Austic, 1981
Selenium

High incidence of dead embryos early in incubation.

Latshaw et al., 1977