Weird question about egg bound hens and sex Link chickens

[chkncrazy]

Hi ya'll, I've had chickens for a good 20 years, and I usually always bought hatchery checks all mixed up or gotten them from local people... Auctions etc... And I've have this burning question to see if this is happened to anyone else.... A few years back I bought golden comets, and maybe I'm a little too loving with my animals I do feel layer crumble and I was also feeding cracked corn every now and again and multi flock grains.... And I know heavy layers get egg bound... About a year-and-a-half in one got egg bound then a few days later another one got egg bound and by the end of two weeks 10 of my hands had to be culled off one by one... It's like one got it and all the other ones started getting it, I did open them up and I don't know if egg bound is the same thing as water belly which is the same thing as internal laying??... But they all had bellies full of water and weird material inside their ovary ducts, almost like impacted intestines, whatever the picture of enteritis is that's what it looked like... Ever since then I told myself I wasn't going to buy and it kind of heavy producing sex lights because it happened again a year after that but it caught about five of my hens, the only reason I'm asking now is my cousin part 25 sex links... red sex links... And I've been over her house six times in the past couple of weeks to put some hens out of their misery with the same problem???? Has anybody else experienced this or having it happen in clusters or is this all just a coincidence lol .... Any feedback would be interesting to hear
Thanks

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I did open them up and I don't know if egg bound is the same thing as water belly which is the same thing as internal laying??...

Sorry for your (and your friend's) experience.

100% they are NOT the same thing.

Egg binding is from an egg being to big to exit the vent or not being shelled and getting stuck inside. Sometimes, from from double or more yolkers, sometimes from too much daylight. I have had this happen in NON production type hens. It is often deadly fast as it also block the vent from passing droppings and causes the hen become septic. Most birds with binding will die withing 48 hours if not resolved.

Water belly, also known as ascites can actually be from liver issues... which can be complicated by things like excess treats, often in conjunction with some sort of genetic predisposition...
https://www.mypetchicken.com/backyard-chickens/chicken-help/All-about-Ascites-disease-H289.aspx


Internal laying- or egg yolk peritonitis (EYP) is when the yolk is released in the body cavity instead of externally...
http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/internal-layer

Salpingitis or lash egg is caused by an infection in the reproductive tract, most often carries poor prognosis...
https://the-chicken-chick.com/salpingitis-lash-eggs-in-backyard/

I have personally (in my own flock) seen Salpingitis in French black copper Marans, she was about 5 years old. Ascites in lavender Orpington, under 1 year (in addition to sudden death caused by liver failure in buff Orps fed excess treats posted by other members). Egg binding death in Swedish Flower Hen under 2 years. Vent prolapse in Silkie hen under 2. I have not yet experienced EYP that I am aware of. I have raised dozens of breeds, hundreds of birds... and I currently have a barred Rock who has not laid eggs in a couple years, but did begin crowing and no other symptoms yet.

My point... sex links do seem to face more issues including reproductive cancers than most standard heritage breed birds... BUT all these things CAN happen regardless of breed. Get the breeds ya like is my best suggestion, and try many!

Nutrition is key to many things and can even influence SOME genetic factors. Not feeding excess treats like corn which is low in protein and doesn't have the added vitamins and minerals a formulated ration does, will keep things balanced. Aim for no more than 10% of the total daily intake.

I also choose to feed "flock raiser" feed (ONLY, I never switch) which has 20% protein and provide oyster shell on the side for active layers... as excess calcium fed long term to non layers such as juveniles, molting, broody, roosters, etc.. *can* (doesn't mean will) cause kidney issues and even failure. I prefer more of my nutrients to come from protein since energy only comes from 3 sources... fat, protein, and carbs which includes fiber. 16% protein in most "layer" feed is essentially the minimum to sustain a light bodied layer like Leghorn in laying condition. Heavier breed birds like RIR and many others will do best on at least 18% protein... and 22% protein was shown to have the highest hatch rates which says to me more nutrients in the eggs my family is consuming. Please note it isn't just the protein but the amino acids it contains. Feathers are made from 90% protein and it's amino acids. Not all protein is created equal, noting chickens need some animal derived amino acids so adding in more peas or soy may not give desired effect. The amino acids are added to the mostly vegetarian feeds many of us use.

While genetics is very likely at play here... I might consider getting a necropsy at a state lab done with so many appearing so close together, if there are things not being mentioned like sour crop, going off food, or other symptoms that could be a sign of something more such as Marek's virus... just to rule out something else being missed. You are brave to open them up like that, and to help a friend out! (oh yeah, I have seen some pics with very obvious tumors lining the reproductive track, sounds different than what you describe I think, but maybe you can find some to peek at for comparison). In poultry so many things can throw the same symptoms it can be difficult to discern. Also, feel free to start a thread for your next necropsy and take lots of picture for some of the more experienced peeps to review with you. And some less experienced to follow and learn along the way.

I see you are here in the states so these links should be good if either of you decide to use them...
How to Send a Bird for a Necropsy

State poultry labs

For what it's worth... I'm SURE there are some hatchery sex links living long lives on here. But yes, in general I do tend to avoid HATCHERY sex links even more than hatchery high production layers like Leghorn, or Rhode Island Red... as they are selected for their sex linking capability and not longevity or being the best of of the breed... otherwise in theory... these hybrids should also bring hybrid vigor... that just is not the case so far from hatchery sex links.

There are many breeds that can produce sex linked offspring when crossed. Any barred hen to any solid non white male. Lots of folks are playing with sex linking and auto sexing breeds. So I try to stay open minded.

I don't know if this helped you at all... because the more I learn, I realize the more there is to learn and I know so little! But actually learning about chickens has made it so much more fun and intriguing, I hope it never ends. This is the tough stuff on our hearts but hang in there on your learning adventure!

 

[chkncrazy]

You have made so many valid points I wish when I opened up my hens I took pictures which I believe I did but they were a few years ago and several phones ago.... There were hard nodules lining the ovarian track it looks like big pimples or hard cysts all different sizes.....It was just odd that it started happening in one hand and spread to like 10 different hens in a matter of weeks time... Nobody went off feed there was no signs of Marek's or anything different .. they were fine one day and then stop playing for a few days and then their bellies got full of water and then I just ended it there had no time for fussing.... But the ones I did open up which were about five or six of them had cyst along the track where the eggs would be and round pieces that look like eggs but when I cut them open they were like layers and layers of what looked to be compressed intestines or some kind of growth.... And now that it's happening to my cousin.... Who actually ordered the same sex links from the same hatchery I used to I'm wondering if there's some kind of Link.....who knows lol

 

[chkncrazy]

Sorry for your (and your friend's) experience.

100% they are NOT the same thing.

Egg binding is from an egg being to big to exit the vent or not being shelled and getting stuck inside. Sometimes, from from double or more yolkers, sometimes from too much daylight. I have had this happen in NON production type hens. It is often deadly fast as it also block the vent from passing droppings and causes the hen become septic. Most birds with binding will die withing 48 hours if not resolved.

Water belly, also known as ascites can actually be from liver issues... which can be complicated by things like excess treats, often in conjunction with some sort of genetic predisposition...
https://www.mypetchicken.com/backyard-chickens/chicken-help/All-about-Ascites-disease-H289.aspx


Internal laying- or egg yolk peritonitis (EYP) is when the yolk is released in the body cavity instead of externally...
http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/internal-layer

Salpingitis or lash egg is caused by an infection in the reproductive tract, most often carries poor prognosis...
https://the-chicken-chick.com/salpingitis-lash-eggs-in-backyard/

I have personally (in my own flock) seen Salpingitis in French black copper Marans, she was about 5 years old. Ascites in lavender Orpington, under 1 year (in addition to sudden death caused by liver failure in buff Orps fed excess treats posted by other members). Egg binding death in Swedish Flower Hen under 2 years. Vent prolapse in Silkie hen under 2. I have not yet experienced EYP that I am aware of. I have raised dozens of breeds, hundreds of birds... and I currently have a barred Rock who has not laid eggs in a couple years, but did begin crowing and no other symptoms yet.

My point... sex links do seem to face more issues including reproductive cancers than most standard heritage breed birds... BUT all these things CAN happen regardless of breed. Get the breeds ya like is my best suggestion, and try many!

Nutrition is key to many things and can even influence SOME genetic factors. Not feeding excess treats like corn which is low in protein and doesn't have the added vitamins and minerals a formulated ration does, will keep things balanced. Aim for no more than 10% of the total daily intake.

I also choose to feed "flock raiser" feed (ONLY, I never switch) which has 20% protein and provide oyster shell on the side for active layers... as excess calcium fed long term to non layers such as juveniles, molting, broody, roosters, etc.. *can* (doesn't mean will) cause kidney issues and even failure. I prefer more of my nutrients to come from protein since energy only comes from 3 sources... fat, protein, and carbs which includes fiber. 16% protein in most "layer" feed is essentially the minimum to sustain a light bodied layer like Leghorn in laying condition. Heavier breed birds like RIR and many others will do best on at least 18% protein... and 22% protein was shown to have the highest hatch rates which says to me more nutrients in the eggs my family is consuming. Please note it isn't just the protein but the amino acids it contains. Feathers are made from 90% protein and it's amino acids. Not all protein is created equal, noting chickens need some animal derived amino acids so adding in more peas or soy may not give desired effect. The amino acids are added to the mostly vegetarian feeds many of us use.

While genetics is very likely at play here... I might consider getting a necropsy at a state lab done with so many appearing so close together, if there are things not being mentioned like sour crop, going off food, or other symptoms that could be a sign of something more such as Marek's virus... just to rule out something else being missed. You are brave to open them up like that, and to help a friend out! (oh yeah, I have seen some pics with very obvious tumors lining the reproductive track, sounds different than what you describe I think, but maybe you can find some to peek at for comparison). In poultry so many things can throw the same symptoms it can be difficult to discern. Also, feel free to start a thread for your next necropsy and take lots of picture for some of the more experienced peeps to review with you. And some less experienced to follow and learn along the way.

I see you are here in the states so these links should be good if either of you decide to use them...
How to Send a Bird for a Necropsy

State poultry labs

For what it's worth... I'm SURE there are some hatchery sex links living long lives on here. But yes, in general I do tend to avoid HATCHERY sex links even more than hatchery high production layers like Leghorn, or Rhode Island Red... as they are selected for their sex linking capability and not longevity or being the best of of the breed... otherwise in theory... these hybrids should also bring hybrid vigor... that just is not the case so far from hatchery sex links.

There are many breeds that can produce sex linked offspring when crossed. Any barred hen to any solid non white male. Lots of folks are playing with sex linking and auto sexing breeds. So I try to stay open minded.

I don't know if this helped you at all... because the more I learn, I realize the more there is to learn and I know so little! But actually learning about chickens has made it so much more fun and intriguing, I hope it never ends. This is the tough stuff on our hearts but hang in there on your learning adventure!

Hey I just took a look at some of your links..... They had lash eggs all of them!!!! That's what I was trying to describe lol... I couldn't remember the name when I looked everything up back then..

 

[Wyorp Rock]

But the ones I did open up which were about five or six of them had cyst along the track where the eggs would be and round pieces that look like eggs but when I cut them open they were like layers and layers of what looked to be compressed intestines or some kind of growth....

Hey I just took a look at some of your links..... They had lash eggs all of them!!!! That's what I was trying to describe lol... I couldn't remember the name when I looked everything up back then..

Glad you were able to remember. Lash egg is Salpingitis which is an inflammation of the oviduct. Have you ever had any symptoms of respiratory illness within your flock?

If a flock has respiratory illness, e. coli infection or I would say it's not uncommon for several hens the same age to all become symptomatic/succumb to the same illness within a short period of time.

https://the-chicken-chick.com/salpingitis-lash-eggs-in-backyard/
https://the-chicken-chick.com/causes-of-lash-eggs-salpingitis-by/
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/disorders-of-the-reproductive-system/salpingitis-in-poultry

 

[micstrachan]

Hey I just took a look at some of your links..... They had lash eggs all of them!!!! That's what I was trying to describe lol... I couldn't remember the name when I looked everything up back then..

I had a feeling that’s what you were trying to describe.

 

[chkncrazy]

Actually, now thinking back during the time when my chickens are getting sick some of them had raspy breathing and would make the car loud sneeze bauk sound !!!!!?...

 

[chkncrazy]

I had a feeling that’s what you were trying to describe.

I got a notification this thread was deleted cause it was a duplicate... But it's still up. Anywho, I guess we've solved a 10 yr old mystery lol. Yay