Welsh harlequin color genetics

[MerryMeridional]

Hi all. I keep a mixed flock with Welsh harlequin ducks, one WH drake, and some black ducks that were sold to me as black Indian runner, but are not. They might be Cayuga/runner mix and are excellent layers and foragers. I also have 3 ducks that are the cross of the origin black ducks and my WH drake.

This brood was all light ducklings. They kind of seemed to have a more distinct eye stripe as babies than I remembered my first WH to have, and one ducking was very blond with a pink beak.

I've read several threads on here about color genetics. Still learning. Would the grand-ducks of the black ducks look like pure WHs or would the black color genetics still show? I am starting to think this whole brood might actually be pure WH. I was hoping someone better at color genetics could take a guess as to what we have here? Is there a possibility they are actually mixes or can I safely assume these are WH only?

 

[MerryMeridional]

Also, could the color difference of the one light duckling be sex linked? The sex linked bill color at hatch is supposed to fade.

 

[WhiteTreeOfGondor]

Hi all. I keep a mixed flock with Welsh harlequin ducks, one WH drake, and some black ducks that were sold to me as black Indian runner, but are not. They might be Cayuga/runner mix and are excellent layers and foragers. I also have 3 ducks that are the cross of the origin black ducks and my WH drake.

This brood was all light ducklings. They kind of seemed to have a more distinct eye stripe as babies than I remembered my first WH to have, and one ducking was very blond with a pink beak.

I've read several threads on here about color genetics. Still learning. Would the grand-ducks of the black ducks look like pure WHs or would the black color genetics still show? I am starting to think this whole brood might actually be pure WH. I was hoping someone better at color genetics could take a guess as to what we have here? Is there a possibility they are actually mixes or can I safely assume these are WH only?

Because the harlequin gene is recessive, it could be carried without showing in the first generation of mixed ducklings, but then show up in their offspring and look like pure Welsh Harlequin. The black gene is dominant but since the black ducks would only pass one of that gene on and the Harlequin wouldn't, it is possible for those grand-ducklings to not have it. So they could still be mixes. I hope that isn't confusing . This calculator is helpful for getting a visual on the genes: https://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingEend.html

 

[Jenbirdee]

They sure are cute!!

 

[MerryMeridional]

Because the harlequin gene is recessive, it could be carried without showing in the first generation of mixed ducklings, but then show up in their offspring and look like pure Welsh Harlequin. The black gene is dominant but since the black ducks would only pass one of that gene on and the Harlequin wouldn't, it is possible for those grand-ducklings to not have it. So they could still be mixes. I hope that isn't confusing . This calculator is helpful for getting a visual on the genes: https://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingEend.html

Thank you for the explanation. What you say tracks. I have 3 of the black duck x WH crosses. One is exceptionally tiny and all black, one is all black with some faint speculum bluing and a single white chest feather, and the third is momma duck shown in the picture of my OP.

My first idea about the ducklings was that the blonde one was a pure WH (it is also slightly larger), and the other matching 3 were black duck grandducks. I have one tiny duckling that may be the offspring of the 2nd gen tiny black duck.

It will be interesting to see how these ducklings feather out. Thanks for your insight.

 

[WhiteTreeOfGondor]

Thank you for the explanation. What you say tracks. I have 3 of the black duck x WH crosses. One is exceptionally tiny and all black, one is all black with some faint speculum bluing and a single white chest feather, and the third is momma duck shown in the picture of my OP.

My first idea about the ducklings was that the blonde one was a pure WH (it is also slightly larger), and the other matching 3 were black duck grandducks. I have one tiny duckling that may be the offspring of the 2nd gen tiny black duck.

It will be interesting to see how these ducklings feather out. Thanks for your insight.

Crossbreed ducks are a lot of fun!

 

[MerryMeridional]

Crossbreed ducks are a lot of fun!

The excitement is similar to how I feel about all the different cultivars of tomato I grow.

On the genetics link, what would a silver phase WH be considered? According to the color genetics article I read, a silver phase WH is actually snowy type, but that doesn't seem right on the results. The WH, golden listed doesn't seem correct either. When I choose snowy, I get bibbed ducks.

 

[WhiteTreeOfGondor]

The excitement is similar to how I feel about all the different cultivars of tomato I grow.

On the genetics link, what would a silver phase WH be considered? According to the color genetics article I read, a silver phase WH is actually snowy type, but that doesn't seem right on the results. The WH, golden listed doesn't seem correct either. When I choose snowy, I get bibbed ducks.

The silver phase is snowy; however, since you didn't get bibbed ducks from your Black x Welsh Harlequin crosses, maybe your Harlequin drake has the dusky gene. That dusky gene removes the bib. I did read somewhere that gold phase Harlequins had dusky and silver did not. But I have a silver phase Welsh Harlequin drake (from Metzer Farms) who does have it so it is possible. If you click on "advanced" on the calculator you can change the individual genes to match what you know of your ducks.

 

[MerryMeridional]

The silver phase is snowy; however, since you didn't get bibbed ducks from your Black x Welsh Harlequin crosses, maybe your Harlequin drake has the dusky gene. That dusky gene removes the bib. I did read somewhere that gold phase Harlequins had dusky and silver did not. But I have a silver phase Welsh Harlequin drake (from Metzer Farms) who does have it so it is possible. If you click on "advanced" on the calculator you can change the individual genes to match what you know of your ducks.
View attachment 3578223

I had another black duck x WH cross who was a black drake with brown barring on his chest and a dark green head. He was so pretty. Do you think the brown chest barring was bibbing or a "claret breast"?

Isn't eye barring a fault in WHs? I got mine from Holderread. I read in another post, they had a duckling who was yellow billed and eye lined from his line of birds.

I think I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the traits and how they are expressed when present or absent. I might need to re-read that article a few times on different days to get it!
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/mallard-derived-duck-color-genetics-basics.74277/

 

[WhiteTreeOfGondor]

I had another black duck x WH cross who was a black drake with brown barring on his chest and a dark green head. He was so pretty. Do you think the brown chest barring was bibbing or a "claret breast"?

Isn't eye barring a fault in WHs? I got mine from Holderread. I read in another post, they had a duckling who was yellow billed and eye lined from his line of birds.

I think I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the traits and how they are expressed when present or absent. I might need to re-read that article a few times on different days to get it!
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/mallard-derived-duck-color-genetics-basics.74277/

He is beautiful! It looks like a claret breast to me but I don't know whether that's possible on a black duck or not. @Pyxis might know. I've found the genetics can be very surprising in the ways they are expressed sometimes and there is still a ton I have to learn.

I'm also not sure if eye stripes are a Welsh Harlequin fault. In my experience people seem to prefer the all white heads but I've seen a few breeders with eye-striped Welsh Harlequins in their flock so maybe it's acceptable in the breed. The only breed I work with as purebred are Anconas, so most of my genetics reading has been on those.