What are the difrences between the RIR and NHR

[nicalandia]

They look Db to me!! it is believe by some that they also carry Di(dominant Dilute, pheomelanin diluter) there is a difference between Db and Co.. let me find some pics to show you ...

Db rooster(on silver, see how clean his hackle is? no stippling at all)


now Columbian(below pic is to show the difference between columbain on eb and eWh, on eb you can see saddle stippling, on eWh you dont)

 

[Spangled]

Wow, nicalandia, thank you.

So, hmmm. Help me out. Is Db a gene that is completely understood? It seems like it enjoys acting differently in the presence of difference genes, modifiers, etc. Db seems to be a real pot-stirrer ... always mixing things up. But that's just the impression I get. Are there people out there that are Db Deniers? (those who think that Db doesn't exist or isn't prevalent)

So do you think that New Hampshires carry Db and Co? Or do you think that New Hampshires carry only Db and do not carry Co?

I'm so interested because somewhere else a couple of folks were going on at me claiming that New Hampshires definitely had Co in them. Your explanation makes a lot of sense to me, though.

Db must be how they get the necks on Buff colored chickens to be clean. Is that right?

 

[nicalandia]

Wow, nicalandia, thank you.

So, hmmm. Help me out. Is Db a gene that is completely understood? It seems like it enjoys acting differently in the presence of difference genes, modifiers, etc. Db seems to be a real pot-stirrer ... always mixing things up. But that's just the impression I get. Are there people out there that are Db Deniers? (those who think that Db doesn't exist or isn't prevalent)

So do you think that New Hampshires carry Db and Co? Or do you think that New Hampshires carry only Db and do not carry Co?

I'm so interested because somewhere else a couple of folks were going on at me claiming that New Hampshires definitely had Co in them. Your explanation makes a lot of sense to me, though.

Db must be how they get the necks on Buff colored chickens to be clean. Is that right?

well Db stands for Dark Brown(the effect it had on E/E or E^R/E^R. any of this chick will produce black down. but in the presence of Db, the chick´s down its turn dark brown.

from poultry breeding and genetics by R.D Crawford


the existence of the Db as far as I know is not despute in todays world.

Db the most powerful restrictor know today, but not only that. it also work with other genes to create beautiful paterns like Spangling, autosomal barring.

NH could and could not have Co in them too, but Db is there for sure.

Self buff birds are said to have Db and Co in them and other restrictor like genes(so far undocumented, Di is one of them)

 

[Chris09]

The Black-Tailed Red color genome. There are four genomes in this atagory.

color genomes:
1. New Hampshire: eWh/eWh s+/s+ Ar+/Ar+ Di/Di Mh/Mh
quote : "The first has an overall orange tone, being a Black-Tailed Buff with the addition of Mahogany
a Red Brown as in a New Hampshire. The male bird had no black in the hackle."

4. Exhibition Rhode Island Red : eWh/eWh s+/s+ Ar+/Ar+ Mh/Mh/ Db/Db 'rb/rb'
quote " ...the darkest form, the exhibition Rhode Island Red. This bird gets its depth of colour from
the interaction of Mahogany and the 'recessive blacks' on the Wheaten base."
All above quoted from "The Genetics of Chicken Colours, The Basics" by Van Dorn, Hancox and friends.

Van Dorn was referring to the U.K. type Reds which has Dark Brown (Db) added the U.S. Red does not also he is missing the Columbian Gene and if I'm not mistaken Reds are not a Black Tailed Red but more a Red Columbian.

Since the New Hampshire was bred solely from the Red there shouldn't be such a drastic difference in the genetic makeup of the two breeds.

Chris

 

[nicalandia]

Van Dorn was referring to the U.K. type Reds which has Dark Brown (Db) added the U.S. Red does not also he is missing the Columbian Gene and if I'm not mistaken Reds are not a Black Tailed Red but more a Red Columbian.

Since the New Hampshire was bred solely from the Red there shouldn't be such a drastic difference in the genetic makeup of the two breeds.

Chris

they look Black Tail Red to me. not Red Columbian

 

[Spangled]

Thanks for your info, Nicalandia. I appreciate it. I also value your opinions. See ya' round.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote:
X 2

 

[3riverschick]

The Black-Tailed Red color genome. There are four genomes in this atagory.

color genomes:
1. New Hampshire: eWh/eWh s+/s+ Ar+/Ar+ Di/Di Mh/Mh
quote : "The first has an overall orange tone, being a Black-Tailed Buff with the addition of Mahogany
a Red Brown as in a New Hampshire. The male bird had no black in the hackle."

4. Exhibition Rhode Island Red : eWh/eWh s+/s+ Ar+/Ar+ Mh/Mh/ Db/Db 'rb/rb'
quote " ...the darkest form, the exhibition Rhode Island Red. This bird gets its depth of colour from
the interaction of Mahogany and the 'recessive blacks' on the Wheaten base."
All above quoted from "The Genetics of Chicken Colours, The Basics" by Van Dorn, Hancox and friends.

Hi,
My personal opinion is that NH should have a double dose of Db instead of the Di. Db in a double dose also acts like a eulumian (sp?) restrictor. It helps create the color segregation which makes the Black-Tailed red, but at the same time allows the different shades of red /mahogany on the bird. If Co is allowed, it creates a more even coloring in the birds red tones. The Black Tailed Red is supposed to have some of the red tones darker than others. One can see this in the BTB Marans ( properly a Black-Tailed Red the same shade as a NH) created in Australia, versus the ones in France. Most Aussie BTB Marans carry Co/Co (per Hancox). They are lighter in hue and more evenly shaded. The French birds are Db and are darker hues with several shades of red on the bird.
That I see, the only difference between RIR and NH coloring genomes are recessive black (rb) and Di.
(or in my personal opinion, Db in the NH and rb in the RIR.)
Best Regard,
Karen in western PA, USA

 

[nicalandia]

Hi,
My personal opinion is that NH should have a double dose of Db instead of the Di. Db in a double dose also acts like a eulumian (sp?) restrictor.

Db/Db is spected from a true breeding breed. now Db/db+ on its own its a powerful restrictor even on E^R birds

this boy is E^R/eWh Di/di+ Db/db+ Mh/mh+ (with Buff Cochin mother)

 

[Chris09]

they look Black Tail Red to me. not Red Columbian

Black Tailed Reds carry Db/Db where Reds are Co/Co

Breeders of Reds as well as Henk69 recognize them as a Red Columbian and not a Black Tailed Red.


Chris