What colors are these Indian Runners?

[Ebb and Flock]

Aloha! I just got a flock of Indian Runners, with no info about their background genetics.

i think they are blue, chocolate, lilac and 2 splash…

But not sure about the tan-ish colored one with eye stripes. It had a blue-ish tone but is recently turning more brown. What color is it?

The tan one is a hatchling from the others (either the chocolate or blue drakes over splash hen)… if that helps.

Also some of their new babies are also hatching with eye stripes- does that indicate a certain sex?

Appreciate any thoughts & expertise!

 

[janiedoe]

They are so cute. I have no experience with ducks at all but maybe @Jenbirdee or @TwoCrows can help.

 

[cheezenkwackers]

I’m not exactly sure what it is called, maybe Blue Mallard? But, she looks like she has facial stripes because she has the Mallard or wildtype pattern allele instead of dusky which results in no facial stripes like in a Khaki Campbell. It is not a sex-linked trait so no, it does not help you tell gender. She also looks like she has at least one blue allele. Btw, ducks who carry at least one black extended (which she does not) also do not show facial stripes because this allele says pretty much says put black in all the feathers. Black changes to blue or splash if one or two blue alleles are also present. This is why your other ducks do not have the facial stripes. I’m not sure this makes any sense but you are basically seeing traits from the grandparents or great grandparents that were hidden in the parents.

 

[Ebb and Flock]

I’m not exactly sure what it is called, maybe Blue Mallard? But, she looks like she has facial stripes because she has the Mallard or wildtype pattern allele instead of dusky which results in no facial stripes like in a Khaki Campbell. It is not a sex-linked trait so no, it does not help you tell gender. She also looks like she has at least one blue allele. Btw, ducks who carry at least one black extended (which she does not) also do not show facial stripes because this allele says pretty much says put black in all the feathers. Black changes to blue or splash if one or two blue alleles are also present. This is why your other ducks do not have the facial stripes. I’m not sure this makes any sense but you are basically seeing traits from the grandparents or great grandparents that were hidden in the parents.

thank you! This helps alot.

So would it be more likely that the blue drake carries the recessive mallard, or could the chocolate also?

since her mama was a splash (which must be double blue, right?) that could be the source of her blue allele?

Im trying to learn about breeding for color going forward… but deciphering past genetics is next level.

 

[cheezenkwackers]

thank you! This helps alot.

So would it be more likely that the blue drake carries the recessive mallard, or could the chocolate also?

since her mama was a splash (which must be double blue, right?) that could be the source of her blue allele?

Im trying to learn about breeding for color going forward… but deciphering past genetics is next level.

Mallard isn’t recessive but non-black is. So, both parents have to be heterozygous or split for extended black. Either drake could be the dad. I suspect the blue drake since the duckling does not appear to have sex-linked brown. But, he I could be wrong or he could be a he. If the brown drake is the dad you have sex-linked ducklings, brownish ducklings (fuzz) girls, gray boys. What did this duckling look like as a baby?

 

[Ebb and Flock]

Mallard isn’t recessive but non-black is. So, both parents have to be heterozygous or split for extended black. Either drake could be the dad. I suspect the blue drake since the duckling does not appear to have sex-linked brown. But, he I could be wrong or he could be a he. If the brown drake is the dad you have sex-linked ducklings, brownish ducklings (fuzz) girls, gray boys. What did this duckling look like as a baby?

Photo from previous keepers. Its a hen, telling from her quack.

So say it was the chocolate drake over blue splash mama…. would it be the choc drake that carries the mallard? Or also chance that the splash mama does too?

Would a choc+mallard drake still be able to pass on autosexing when over a splash?

 

[cheezenkwackers]

View attachment 3943997Photo from previous keepers. Its a hen, telling from her quack.

So say it was the chocolate drake over blue splash mama…. would it be the choc drake that carries the mallard? Or also chance that the splash mama does too?

Would a choc+mallard drake still be able to pass on autosexing when over a splash?

Either or both parents could carry mallard. Extended black hides what they are carrying, Both the chocolate and splash have extended black hiding their pattern. There are 3 patterns, Mallard, Restricted, and Dusky. Both Mallard and Restricted are dominant over Dusky. So, she could have two mallard alleles and have gotten it from both parents. Or, she could have one mallard allele and one dusky allele. No way to know unless you breed her and get a dusky baby.

From the picture it is hard to tell if she has both brown and blue but I suspect she does. The duckling on the left definitely has brown. So, good chance the chocolate is the dad.

You might like this article by Pyxis: Link

 

[notallducksinmypond]

So say it was the chocolate drake over blue splash mama…. would it be the choc drake that carries the mallard? Or also chance that the splash mama does too?

Would a choc+mallard drake still be able to pass on autosexing when over a splash?

mallard is not "carried" like black or blue or brown.
the standart/basic duck is a mallard (see wild mallard, close relatives to runners)
so every duck is some kind of mallard (dark phase, light phase, restricted or dusky)
and all other colors are on top,
some change the tone of mallard (brown, blue),
some act as an "overlay" and cover the mallard (black).
(white and pied/patterned is in every case the toplayer, over everything else)
but the mallardish color is still the base.
if you combine the overlay color black with a "changing" color like blue , the black will be changed to blue. more blue on top will change to splash
(blue is incomplete dominant: one gene copy = blue, two copies =splash)
so your splash duck is most likely a standart mallard , with at least one black gene and two blue genes,
the mallard is covered with black and the black is changed by the blue to splash
same with the brown boy: mallard covered with at least one black and the black changed by two brown genes
your lilac girl is one step further: mallard base, covered with black, black changed by double blue AND changed by brown

your eyestripe lady is prove of one thing: at leat two of your potential parents are heterozygote black, so carry only one copy of the black allele, because she has no black

brown is sex linked:
(short genetics course, ducks are the other way around than humans (xx girl, xy boy) their sexe determining chromosomes are called Z and w, drakes are ZZ, ducks are Zw. the w chromosomes are "shorter" than the Z ones so there is "not enough room" for all gene copies, an example is the brown gene(marked as d) : on the w chromosome is no location for this gene)
brown is recessive, it must be homozygote to be expressed in the plumage color
so a brown duck is d/- , a brown drake is d/d and a brown carrier drake (not visually brown) is d/D+

if you have a brown drake ALL his daughters are brown, so yes his offspring is autosexing, AS LONG as you pair him with a non brown duck. (with a brown duck all ducklings are brown)

on another note: could you possible take some good quality pictures compairing your splash and lilac ducks to show the difference in adult plumage, there are little to no pictures out there