What did you do in the garden today?

[Molpet]

Another alternative to vermiculite might be ground corn cobs. I didn't see it anywhere and haven't looked for info on that. Yet, anyway.

I got some corn cob bedding. Swells when wet in the brooder. I didn't like it for that purpose. But it is light and might work for pots

 

[Antiocheggers]

Nothing today it's raining, which is good because we put our spring garden in.

 

[Sueby]

What ever happened to using those large bags of vermiculite insulation for mixing potting soil? I used to buy a 3 cubic foot bag of vermicultie insulation at Menards for about $16.00 each. Now, you can't find those big bags anymore. The least expensive option I have found is now $19.00 for a 1.5 cubic foot bag....

View attachment 3751038

That "garden vermiculite" costs more per bag for half the volume of the vermiculite insulation I used to buy. I can't find the less expensive large bag vermiculite insulation anywhere. Did that get banned or something?

Edited to add: Any recommendations for a low-cost vermiculite substitute for potting soil mixes? I have some deck pots that need to be filled this spring. Thanks.

That's a good price - I just bought some that was a little more expensive than that & I searched for a long time.
We have vermiculite around the chimney in our attic, they wouldn't do a pressure test thing on the house because of it (it *could* have asbestos). It should be safe as long as it's not messed with.

Cold here & we got a few more inches of snow. Dying to start some seeds, but it's just too early for what I'm starting. Had a salad out of the aerogarden yesterday.

​

On vermiculite & gardening:
https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/asbestos/homeowner/insulation.html#:~:text=Not all vermiculite products contain,in pre-mixed potting soils.

Vermiculite and gardening use​

Not all vermiculite products contain asbestos, but some do. An EPA study showed some vermiculite products contain low levels of asbestos. Asbestos is found primarily in the unmixed vermiculite product although some was found in pre-mixed potting soils. For consumers using vermiculite on an infrequent basis the health risk is low. Greenhouse workers in daily contact incur a higher level of risk.

The health risk to home gardeners from infrequent contact with vermiculite is low. Nevertheless, it is prudent to take a few simple precautions.

• Use premixed potting soil. It normally contains more moisture and less vermiculite and reduces the amount of asbestos-laden dust.
• Keep vermiculite moist while using to minimize dust and possible asbestos fibers in the air. As with any dust, breathing in large amounts of particles can cause nose and throat irritation.
• Handle the material outdoors or in a well-ventilated area.
• Avoid bringing dust into the house on clothing or shoes.
• Try alternatives such as peat, sawdust, perlite or bark.

 

[gtaus]

A few years ago, I asked the local farm/garden shop (family owned, not a chain) to order me some bags -they were 4cubic ft, quite large. Can’t remember the cost though, but more reasonable than the small bags.

Thanks. I'll give some of my local nurseries a call and see if they can get large bags of vermiculite and how much they cost.

 

[gtaus]

Maybe. It [vermiculite] has asbestos sometimes.


Rice Hulls. Link to info

I found a paper on how rice hulls are not as effective as vermiculite or perlite but it was put out by suppliers of perlite. Link.

Their main point was rice hulls are flatter so don't provide as much benefit to soil structure as the round perlite or more angular vermiculite.
So I think buckwheat hulls may be a little better than rice hulls but haven't found info on it. Buckwheat hulls might be hard to find as only hulls but buckwheat seeds are inexpensive, more available in the north than rice hulls, and include the hull. I think you could bake the seeds to keep them from sprouting in your potting mix. I would be tempted to try them viable and either use mulch or weed them as they came up.

The link to the perlite company has a nice chart on the second page about the properties of several options.

I know the bags of vermiculite I purchased years ago had a banner claiming it was asbestos free. So, I was not concerned about that - assuming they test the vermiculite, and it passed the testing to be asbestos free.

I had not considered rice hulls. Probably because I have never seen any sold around here. However, I looked online and my local big box stores do not carry rice hulls. At any rate, that second link to "properties of several options" was interesting. Just yesterday I was sweeping up lots of saw dust and thinking to myself that sawdust might be useful for something, so I put it into a pail. Turns out, at least on the link you provided, saw dust has about the same properties as rice hulls.

I only have about half an ice cream pail full of sawdust at this time, but I might as well blend that in with any homemade potting soil I mix. I don't think it would hurt.

Also, a couple years ago when I was loading up free wood chips at our local county landfill, there was a big pile of saw dust there as well. I had no idea why anyone would want to take saw dust, unless maybe they use it as some kind of organic absorbent material. But I think I'll check out the landfill again this spring and maybe pick up a big tote of free saw dust if I find mixing it in a potting mix blend works for me. Free is good!

Looking at the chart, it convinces me once again that vermiculite was probably the best option for blending into a potting soil mix. I mainly wanted something that would retain water, but I was surprised to see that vermiculite also adds K & Mg to the potting soil mix.

Finally, let me mention that I have all kinds of chicken run compost that is fantastic in my raised garden beds. But I don't want to bring that compost inside the house because it is full of life and I am certain that my house would be full of bugs in no time. But maybe I could use more compost in my potting mix for outside planters on the deck.

I am still learning about this stuff, and just when I think I have a few answers, I can no longer get the stuff (inexpensive vermiculite) that worked so well for me.

Again, thank for the links and good info.

 

[gtaus]

Asbestos
https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/protec...-contaminated-vermiculite-insulation#concerns

I have read a number of articles on the main vermiculite mine found asbestos in the mine around 1990, which may have contaminated some of the vermiculite. But the large, inexpensive bags of insulation vermiculite I purchased at Menards about 5 years ago claimed it was tested to be asbestos free. For whatever reason, Menards no longer sells the inexpensive vermiculite insulation in the large 3 cubic foot bags, but the same company is now selling small bags of "gardening' vermiculite for about 5X the cost!

Gardening math for nerds: 1 cubic foot = 30 quarts. A 3 cubic foot of vermiculite has 90 quarts and sold for about $16.00. A bag of gardening vermiculite sells for $6.97 for 8 quarts, or $0.8712/qt. 90 quarts of gardening vermiculite costs $0.8712 X 90 = $78.41. That's a whole lot more than $16.00 for the exact same stuff they used to sell as vermiculite insulation!

Well, Menards added a larger 1.5 cubic foot bag of gardening vermiculite this year. This is the least expensive option I have found locally, but it is still more than 2X the cost of the vermiculite insulation I used to buy.

 

[gtaus]

That's a good price - I just bought some that was a little more expensive than that & I searched for a long time.
We have vermiculite around the chimney in our attic, they wouldn't do a pressure test thing on the house because of it (it *could* have asbestos). It should be safe as long as it's not messed with.

Cold here & we got a few more inches of snow. Dying to start some seeds, but it's just too early for what I'm starting. Had a salad out of the aerogarden yesterday.

​

On vermiculite & gardening:
https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/asbestos/homeowner/insulation.html#:~:text=Not all vermiculite products contain,in pre-mixed potting soils.

Vermiculite and gardening use​

Not all vermiculite products contain asbestos, but some do. An EPA study showed some vermiculite products contain low levels of asbestos. Asbestos is found primarily in the unmixed vermiculite product although some was found in pre-mixed potting soils. For consumers using vermiculite on an infrequent basis the health risk is low. Greenhouse workers in daily contact incur a higher level of risk.

The health risk to home gardeners from infrequent contact with vermiculite is low. Nevertheless, it is prudent to take a few simple precautions.

• Use premixed potting soil. It normally contains more moisture and less vermiculite and reduces the amount of asbestos-laden dust.
• Keep vermiculite moist while using to minimize dust and possible asbestos fibers in the air. As with any dust, breathing in large amounts of particles can cause nose and throat irritation.
• Handle the material outdoors or in a well-ventilated area.
• Avoid bringing dust into the house on clothing or shoes.
• Try alternatives such as peat, sawdust, perlite or bark.

Thanks for the info. I just responded in another post about maybe using saw dust as an alternative. It just does not seem to have as many benefits as vermiculite does. But I am thinking maybe getting a 1.5 cubic foot bag of vermiculite at Menards for $19.00 and mixing in a good ration of free saw dust to cut down on the cost of my homemade potting mix.

Frankly, I'm also looking at the price comparison of commercial bagged potting mix now because my old DIY potting soil mix recipe seems to be even more expensive due to the high cost of vermiculite, and peat moss is no longer as cheap as it used to be, either.

I guess I will have to run the numbers to see if it still makes any sense to make my own DIY potting mix. It may just be easier, and less expensive, to buy commercial bagged potting soil at this point?

I went through a similar exercise a few years ago when I considered the cost of buying individual grains to make a chicken scratch mix. I found out that unless I purchased grains in large bulk quantities, there was no savings to be realized by mixing my own chicken scratch. I only have 10 chickens. It just made more sense for me to buy commercial chicken scratch at our Fleet store when they go on sale. And that was before COVID-19 and the price hike of grains at our local feed mill which have not come down even now.

 

[Acre4Me]

I had no idea why anyone would want to take saw dust, unless maybe they use it as some kind of organic absorbent material.

Yes, that’s why. Common to use as animal bedding. Such as cows or pigs - that’s where I see it used here.

 

[akroberts1085]

Made it home at almost 1 am. Daughter got a 23 ev. Not my cup of tea. My husband said that if she left her key fob I could bring it to her bc it needed to be charged I told him no I am not driving that thing it has too many bells and whistles for me. Got my tiller Friday and did get some of the ground tilled but still have a lot more to do.

 

[akroberts1085]

Yes, that’s why. Common to use as animal bedding. Such as cows or pigs - that’s where I see it used here.

Also can be used for insulation. I seen that on an episode of Homestead Rescue.