What happens when foxes start eating chickens (graphic)

[Feathers of Eden]

My livestock is properly contained. I still get predators trying for a free meal. Predator gets eliminated. And yes I have the right to kill predators actively killing my livestock. It's is the right thing to do. Am I supposed to watch my livestock die because someone says it's not the right thing to do? Sorry. My rifles are close by, and I'll sleep well knowing there's one less predator around trying to kill my, or others, livestock.

Maybe livestock guardian dogs are the answer. maybe?

Facts: You need to protect your livestock from harm. aka your right
Predators need to feed themselves and their offspring. aka animal right

If there is not enough food left naturally out for predators to feed on OR our livestock are too easy and available for predators to snap on OR the predator is compromised and hurt so it can't hunt naturally and resort to easy livestock meal then your right and animal right comes to direct conflict.

It ends in two ways:
1-You eliminate predator by removing them(shooting,trapping, poisoning, relocating, ) your right

or They kill or harm your livestock to survive ( animal right)

You see? It is either you or them.
All or none.
Your victory is their elimination and their victory is your loss.

I say livestock guardian dogs and/or if possible enough fencing is so far the only way that is not either you or them. You save your livestock and predators live to see another season.

My experience says if you can shoot 4 foxes in your homestead that means in less than a season another 4 will replace them and they will eat your chickens and you get upset and hunt them down and shoot them only after you have experienced some poultry loss and the cycle go one. LGD might be the answer in some cases.

 

[BarnyardChaos]

Protect your animals, yes, but not by shooting wild animals, but protect your animals by fencing them off from predators!

Did you look closely at those pictures? #4 is clearly VERY infected by mange, and #1 looks like it's in trouble too. In fact, all four of them look pretty thin. Does 'protecting your animals' include protection from disease carried by wildlife? A fence can't do that.

I'd have shot it (#4) too, if only to put the poor thing out of its misery.

 

[mowin]

Maybe livestock guardian dogs are the answer. maybe?

Facts: You need to protect your livestock from harm. aka your right
Predators need to feed themselves and their offspring. aka animal right

If there is not enough food left naturally out for predators to feed on OR our livestock are too easy and available for predators to snap on OR the predator is compromised and hurt so it can't hunt naturally and resort to easy livestock meal then your right and animal right comes to direct conflict.

It ends in two ways:
1-You eliminate predator by removing them(shooting,trapping, poisoning, relocating, ) your right

or They kill or harm your livestock to survive ( animal right)

You see? It is either you or them.
All or none.
Your victory is their elimination and their victory is your loss.

I say livestock guardian dogs and/or if possible enough fencing is so far the only way that is not either you or them. You save your livestock and predators live to see another season.

My experience says if you can shoot 4 foxes in your homestead that means in less than a season another 4 will replace them and they will eat your chickens and you get upset and hunt them down and shoot them only after you have experienced some poultry loss and the cycle go one. LGD might be the answer in some cases.

I've got 3 large dogs. They do not roam when we are not home, or at night.

If you're willing to purchase the LGD, pay for feed and any upkeep, vet bills ECT, send it over with your CC info.

 

[Feathers of Eden]

I've got 3 large dogs. They do not roam when we are not home, or at night.

If you're willing to purchase the LGD, pay for feed and any upkeep, vet bills ECT, send it over with your CC info.

You are willing to pay for the bills of 3 large dogs that are not up to task in hand but suddenly the bills of LGD is too much?

LGDs will protect your home regardless of your presence or night or day.

LGDs ( working lines) are very cheap to take care of. They are healthy and tough. Two of LGDsI grew up with never saw a vet other than vaccination. There was no reason for them to need a vet.

 

[bobbi-j]

I notice that a lot of people here don't know how to use the forum rules
and doesn't know what "replay" "quote" means...!
I didn't call all of you here liars, but only the guy from Germany, who claimed that in Germany you can kill animals just like in the USA!
I quoted him clearly and replied to his post!
When I think of fencing animals, then I mean complete fencing with a quality net, with laying (preventing digging), covering from all sides and from above! This is called an aviary in Croatia.
The animals then do not suffer, because the size of the aviary depends on the number of birds in the flock - prescribed by law.
"Free range" mode is protected by electric shepherds(fence,wire), dogs, houses or objects that enable the birds to escape to safety!
The EU law is written in such detail that it has a solution for every problem, it is humane and civilized!
It is clear to me that in the USA people simply buy weapons like Europeans buy bread, and that people's mentality is different! But you have to understand that just as It's strange to an American that people in China keep dogs and cats, to a European it's strange that an American buys a rifle without any medical/psychiatric license in an ordinary store and kills wild game in a populated place!

I get that you’re passionate about the subject, but when you resort to name calling and “my way or the highway” arguments, you lose credibility and the respect of those reading your responses. Clearly Croatia and the US are different places with different predators, predator loads, and ways of dealing with said predators. Since I have never been to Croatia and don’t understand anything about it or the culture, I am certainly not in any position to criticize you and how you do things. There is nothing to be gained on either side here by continuing to argue. We all have our way of doing things, and as long as they’re not illegal, endangering others or causing suffering (I don’t even like to see a predator suffer - a quick, painless death is my goal when having to put them down), we need to learn to agree to disagree.

 

[Aunt Angus]

I notice that a lot of people here don't know how to use the forum rules
and doesn't know what "replay" "quote" means...!
I didn't call all of you here liars, but only the guy from Germany, who claimed that in Germany you can kill animals just like in the USA!
I quoted him clearly and replied to his post!
When I think of fencing animals, then I mean complete fencing with a quality net, with laying (preventing digging), covering from all sides and from above! This is called an aviary in Croatia.
The animals then do not suffer, because the size of the aviary depends on the number of birds in the flock - prescribed by law.
"Free range" mode is protected by electric shepherds(fence,wire), dogs, houses or objects that enable the birds to escape to safety!
The EU law is written in such detail that it has a solution for every problem, it is humane and civilized!
It is clear to me that in the USA people simply buy weapons like Europeans buy bread, and that people's mentality is different! But you have to understand that just as It's strange to an American that people in China keep dogs and cats, to a European it's strange that an American buys a rifle without any medical/psychiatric license in an ordinary store and kills wild game in a populated place!

Hi. I'm an American. I don't own firearms. My husband doesn't, either. Most folks I know don't have them, either. It really depends on where you live, I think. I do live on a farm in the mountains, though.

I'm interested in hearing how your laws work. We have an aviary, as you call it. It is surrounded by electric fencing. It's covered with aviary netting. My birds have about 1400 sq ft between the yard/aviary and the run. I have 16 chickens and 5 ducks in that area. The electric fencing will deter foxes, housecats, weasels, ferrets, stoats, martins, raccoons, coyote, most dogs, skunks, possum, wolves, lynx, bobcat, and even bears. The netting keeps out the hawks, owls, eagles, and falcons. Snakes do get past the electricity, but hardware cloth stops them. Hardware cloth alone won't deter bears and large dogs. I have both electricity and hardware cloth around my enclosures.

But there are no barriers that protect from ALL of the predators we have here. The EU doesn't have predators like mountain lions, I don't think. Electricity won't stop a determined mountain lion. LGDs won't stop mountain lions. Mountain lions have gone through barn walls here. Only a gun will stop them. They can leap distances of 20 ft and over 12 ft fences. They can dig. They can carry off large goats, no problem. They recently killed a horse and 4 llamas in our area. They have killed people, too, though not this year.

I think I'm misunderstanding your laws. What recourse do you have if a fox gets into the aviary? Do you have to stand aside and watch it kill your chickens? So then you call your hunting clubs to deal with the predator, right? So the predator is dead, but so are your chickens, right?

I'm not insulting anyone here. It just doesn't make sense to me. If a fox or bear or marten or skunk or raccoon or mountain lion or wolf or what have you is killing your livestock, you should be allowed to stop it. Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

[Feathers of Eden]

Did you look closely at those pictures? #4 is clearly VERY infected by mange, and #1 looks like it's in trouble too. In fact, all four of them look pretty thin. Does 'protecting your animals' include protection from disease carried by wildlife? A fence can't do that.

I'd have shot it (#4) too, if only to put the poor thing out of its misery.

He did not shoot them because they were thin or mange infected. They were shot because they were attacking his poultry.

There is a good chance they were attacking chickens because they were sick and weak enough not to be able to hunt wild animals.

 

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

He did not shoot them because they were thin or mange infected. They were shot because they were attacking his poultry.

There is a good chance they were attacking chickens because they were sick and weak enough not to be able to hunt wild animals.

X2

 

[Feathers of Eden]

Hi. I'm an American. I don't own firearms. My husband doesn't, either. Most folks I know don't have them, either. It really depends on where you live, I think. I do live on a farm in the mountains, though.

I'm interested in hearing how your laws work. We have an aviary, as you call it. It is surrounded by electric fencing. It's covered with aviary netting. My birds have about 1400 sq ft between the yard/aviary and the run. I have 16 chickens and 5 ducks in that area. The electric fencing will deter foxes, housecats, weasels, ferrets, stoats, martins, raccoons, coyote, most dogs, skunks, possum, wolves, lynx, bobcat, and even bears. The netting keeps out the hawks, owls, eagles, and falcons. Snakes do get past the electricity, but hardware cloth stops them. Hardware cloth alone won't deter bears and large dogs. I have both electricity and hardware cloth around my enclosures.

But there are no barriers that protect from ALL of the predators we have here. The EU doesn't have predators like mountain lions, I don't think. Electricity won't stop a determined mountain lion. LGDs won't stop mountain lions. Mountain lions have gone through barn walls here. Only a gun will stop them. They can leap distances of 20 ft and over 12 ft fences. They can dig. They can carry off large goats, no problem. They recently killed a horse and 4 llamas in our area. They have killed people, too, though not this year.

I think I'm misunderstanding your laws. What recourse do you have if a fox gets into the aviary? Do you have to stand aside and watch it kill your chickens? So then you call your hunting clubs to deal with the predator, right? So the predator is dead, but so are your chickens, right?

I'm not insulting anyone here. It just doesn't make sense to me. If a fox or bear or marten or skunk or raccoon or mountain lion or wolf or what have you is killing your livestock, you should be allowed to stop it. Or am I misunderstanding something?

If LGD is fit for the job and in enough numbers then mountain lions do not risk their livelihood to hunt in risky situation.
Predators think long term survival and they avoid being hurt and injured at all cost since they can't go to vet to right the wrong but LGDs have their masters to go to leak their wounds.
Ps: I have no problem with shooting predators that has been habituated to homestead easy meal.
Who am I to judge how you defend your livestock in your county?
It does not make me feel happy though to see foxes are dead, chickens are dead and a frustrated homesteader lost chickens ( financial and mental pressure) when maybe LGD can be the solution. I mean permanent solution . Because shooting predators is normally not the long term solution but just a pain killer with limited efficiency .

 

[Brooks_]

American buys a rifle without any medical/psychiatric license in an ordinary store and kills wild game in a populated place!

I would not call that accurate. Media has given you a falsehood.