What happens when foxes start eating chickens (graphic)

[Aunt Angus]

If LGD is fit for the job and in enough numbers then mountain lions do not risk their livelihood to hunt in risky situation.
Predators think long term survival and they avoid being hurt and injured at all cost since they can't go to vet to right the wrong but LGDs have their masters to go to leak their wounds.
Ps: I have no problem with shooting predators that has been habituated to homestead easy meal.
Who am I to judge how you defend your livestock in your county?
It does not make me feel happy though to see foxes are dead, chickens are dead and a frustrated homesteader lost chickens ( financial and mental pressure) when maybe LGD can be the solution. I mean permanent solution . Because shooting predators is normally not the long term solution but just a pain killer with limited efficiency .

In most cases, yes. But LGDs have been killed here, too. It's very rare, though. And maybe those LGDs weren't well trained.

 

[Aunt Angus]

I would not call that accurate. Media has given you a falsehood.

Yes! This!

 

[mowin]

You are willing to pay for the bills of 3 large dogs that are not up to task in hand but suddenly the bills of LGD is too much?

LGDs will protect your home regardless of your presence or night or day.

LGDs ( working lines) are very cheap to take care of. They are healthy and tough. Two of LGDsI grew up with never saw a vet other than vaccination. There was no reason for them to need a vet.

I don't need a LGD. I just shoot the predators.

 

[ikoCRO]

Hi. I'm an American. I don't own firearms. My husband doesn't, either. Most folks I know don't have them, either. It really depends on where you live, I think. I do live on a farm in the mountains, though.

I'm interested in hearing how your laws work. We have an aviary, as you call it. It is surrounded by electric fencing. It's covered with aviary netting. My birds have about 1400 sq ft between the yard/aviary and the run. I have 16 chickens and 5 ducks in that area. The electric fencing will deter foxes, housecats, weasels, ferrets, stoats, martins, raccoons, coyote, most dogs, skunks, possum, wolves, lynx, bobcat, and even bears. The netting keeps out the hawks, owls, eagles, and falcons. Snakes do get past the electricity, but hardware cloth stops them. Hardware cloth alone won't deter bears and large dogs. I have both electricity and hardware cloth around my enclosures.

But there are no barriers that protect from ALL of the predators we have here. The EU doesn't have predators like mountain lions, I don't think. Electricity won't stop a determined mountain lion. LGDs won't stop mountain lions. Mountain lions have gone through barn walls here. Only a gun will stop them. They can leap distances of 20 ft and over 12 ft fences. They can dig. They can carry off large goats, no problem. They recently killed a horse and 4 llamas in our area. They have killed people, too, though not this year.

I think I'm misunderstanding your laws. What recourse do you have if a fox gets into the aviary? Do you have to stand aside and watch it kill your chickens? So then you call your hunting clubs to deal with the predator, right? So the predator is dead, but so are your chickens, right?

I'm not insulting anyone here. It just doesn't make sense to me. If a fox or bear or marten or skunk or raccoon or mountain lion or wolf or what have you is killing your livestock, you should be allowed to stop it. Or am I misunderstanding something?

There are no mountain lions in Croatia, but that's why we have wolves and bears against which no fence or protection really helps.
In that case, if there is an attack from them, the state provides monetary compensation for the damage done - if they establish that the animals were properly fenced!
When wolves attack sheep, which must be out in the open for grazing, the state again pays compensation for each killed sheep (you even have a video of little Luka Modrić (a famous football star) tending sheep on the Velebit mountain and saying that he is afraid of wolves).
The current problem is that a new law has been passed that insurance companies will no longer pay compensation for car damage caused by wild animals on the road.
This new law caused a lot of dissatisfaction among the majority of citizens.

If your life is threatened, killing wild game in the form of self-defense is allowed!

I have already written everything and I will not do it again, regardless of the fact that something is allowed by law in your country, it does not necessarily mean that it is good! I repeat, to me, killing wild animals, giving a rifle to a small child is disgusting and primitive, just as it is disgusting to you and primitive that the Chinese eat cats and dogs!
An old proverb says:
Once a mosquito lands on your testicles, then you realize that problems are not solved by violence!

 

[Aunt Angus]

There are no mountain lions in Croatia, but that's why we have wolves and bears against which no fence or protection really helps.
In that case, if there is an attack from them, the state provides monetary compensation for the damage done - if they establish that the animals were properly fenced!
When wolves attack sheep, which must be out in the open for grazing, the state again pays compensation for each killed sheep (you even have a video of little Luka Modrić (a famous football star) tending sheep on the Velebit mountain and saying that he is afraid of wolves).
The current problem is that a new law has been passed that insurance companies will no longer pay compensation for car damage caused by wild animals on the road.
This new law caused a lot of dissatisfaction among the majority of citizens.

If your life is threatened, killing wild game in the form of self-defense is allowed!

I have already written everything and I will not do it again, regardless of the fact that something is allowed by law in your country, it does not necessarily mean that it is good! I repeat, to me, killing wild animals, giving a rifle to a small child is disgusting and primitive, just as it is disgusting to you and primitive that the Chinese eat cats and dogs!
An old proverb says:
Once a mosquito lands on your testicles, then you realize that problems are not solved by violence!

I have read other posts written by you. This seems be a pattern of behavior on your behalf. I'm sorry you have passed judgment on Americans as a people without even attempting to consider other viewpoints. I am perfectly willing to consider yours. And I wish you would have answered my question. My best assumption is that you would stand by and watch your show birds get killed by foxes rather than defend them, and instead be quite pleased to accept compensation for their lives.

Best to you, friend. I hope you can someday be more tolerant of that which is different. I will refrain from judging Croatians based on your comments. Other folks I've known who were from your country were very kind and eager to learn.

 

[ikoCRO]

I have read other posts written by you. This seems be a pattern of behavior on your behalf. I'm sorry you have passed judgment on Americans as a people without even attempting to consider other viewpoints. I am perfectly willing to consider yours. And I wish you would have answered my question. My best assumption is that you would stand by and watch your show birds get killed by foxes rather than defend them, and instead be quite pleased to accept compensation for their lives.

Best to you, friend. I hope you can someday be more tolerant of that which is different. I will refrain from judging Croatians based on your comments. Other folks I've known who were from your country were very kind and eager to learn.

Although I wrote that I will not write anymore, I will try to answer you, just because you seem reasonable and cultured!
I really don't know which question I didn't answer, I actually gave you a "like" because I agree with you!
Big predators, wolves, bears, mountain lions... there is really little you can do, because they will tear your fence and endanger you and your animals, in that case you can shoot because your life is in danger - the state will pay you the damages!
Smaller predators, foxes, weasels, lynxes... there are effective ways of defense against them and they cannot easily tear the fence (unless it is cheap and of poor quality), there is no reason for them to kill themselves!
More clearly now, how does the law work?
History tells us that people simply torture animals by keeping them in inadequate conditions, small spaces, dirty spaces, unprotected spaces...
If we keep animals in dirty places and directly endanger them with diseases - do you think that this is bad keeping of animals?
If you agree with that, then what is the difference in the fact that you endanger unprotected animals with wild predators?
Dirty habitat and unprotected habitat - it's the same to me!
I'm not so stupid that I judge all Americans based on a few comments on the forum, but look at the comments:

- I find foxes creepy, nice aim!
-Thankfully I don't live in Europe, and have plenty of ammo
-The next few predators I kill, I do so in your honor....
- It depends on what they taste like smoked low and slow.
- Oh, Mr Fox was eliminated last night in your honor. My livestock, thank you for your support.
- I don't need a LGD. I just shoot the predators.

These are the messages of the civilized world?

And what about the German whom I wrote that he is a liar and who has not yet replied to my message why is he lying when he knows that the same law is implemented in Germany!
Why is he obviously lying? Maybe he wants to preserve his good reputation on the forum by lying to you Americans?
I laugh when I read the comments that the fox should have been killed because it was sick anyway, I wonder if they first took it to a laboratory test to confirm its illness, and only then killed it?
Total nonsense!

 

[mowin]

- I find foxes creepy, nice aim!
-Thankfully I don't live in Europe, and have plenty of ammo
-The next few predators I kill, I do so in your honor....
- It depends on what they taste like smoked low and slow.
- Oh, Mr Fox was eliminated last night in your honor. My livestock, thank you for your support.
- I don't need a LGD. I just shoot the predators.

And what's wrong with those statements?
You still don't understand the concept that in the USA it's LEGAL to shoot predators. Read that again and let it sink in. It's Legal to shoot predators in the USA.

Your living in a Disney world. Grow up.

 

[bobbi-j]

And what's wrong with those statements?
You still don't understand the concept that in the USA it's LEGAL to shoot predators. Read that again and let it sink in. It's Legal to shoot predators in the USA.

Your living in a Disney world. Grow up.

I think they understand - they just don’t agree with it.

 

[mowin]

I think they understand - they just don’t agree with it.

I don't think this person has the capacity to understand others cultures. In his/her mind it's wrong, and we should be ashamed of ourselves and be banned from owning any and all livestock.

 

[Shadrach]

I'm from Croatia!
You're from Germany?
You can kill wild animals whenever and however you want?
Why are you lying?
All countries of the European Union have a clear law on the protection of domestic and wild animals - this law is also implemented in European countries that are not in the EU.
You know very well that no matter what kind of animals you have, you have to register and the veterinary inspection has to check the conditions in which you keep the animals!
One of the items in the law is that you must not expose animals to predator attacks, and that you must protect them!
Killing foxes, wolves, bears, falcons, snakes, weasels is strictly prohibited in the European Union, and don't lie that it isn't!
I personally know a lot of German poultry farmers and I know that in Germany they are very strict in enforcing the law!

Killing predators is very primitive and bad!
If you cannot properly fence/protect your animals, you do not deserve to keep animals!

I'm afraid you're wrong. There are circumstances under which you are permitted to kill creatures that prey on your livestock.