what is this on my game-cam?

[dretd]

Quote:
Hmm, interesting. So are you a scientist doing research on the big cats? What types/breeds of dogs are you using for your research/hunt?

I actually think it would be very helpful to the conversation to see photos with measurements of your skins you have. We have determined that the animal in question was relatively small based on comparison with crows in the same plane--approximately 12-14 inches tall at the shoulder and no more thatn 40-42 inches long including the tail. The behavior seen on camera also was more compatible with a grey fox than a cougar. The color pattern is consistant with a grey fox, the size and behavior and range are all consistant with the grey fox as well, so that has been the most likely critter (jaguarundi and cougar proponents not-withstanding).

If you could provide data that a juvinaile cougar is 40 inches long nose to tail with that coloration and demonstrate any data that the cat has been seen in Eastern Georgia (if this is a juvinile, there must be a breeding population within a reasonable distance and not just moving through such as the isolated case you referred to before). So yes, more information is always better and pictures are wonderful.

 

[harveyhorses]

Just a random thought on it not being a fox, do their tails bend? I know they can be held high of droop on the ground, but I had the impression they stayed relatively straight. Not wiggly.

 

[dretd]

Quote:
There is a pretty good video on this website: http://www.desertusa.com/video_pages/du_gfox1.html that shows two gray foxes moving about and they are very cat-like in their movement. The tails are not as ridgid as a 'normal' canid. I think this, along with patient guidance from Woodmort shifted me from the feline to the canine camp.

 

[007pennpal]

dretd,
The one year old female sample I have is about 50 inches nose to tail. It weighted about 35 pounds live. It is a Northwestern lion sub adult. I'm guessing that the picture is a slightly younger and smaller lion. That color pattern on the tail is an exact match to a lion tail. Cubs/sub adults stay with the mother for two years. At two years, they are the same size as their mother. Southern/warm climate lions have shorter hair making them look small. I am not a scientist. I am a houndsmen. I have 4 Cameron Blueticks, one Smokey River Bluetick, a Walker and a Walker/Redtick cross. Scientists use houndsmen to learn and optain data for North American Lion studies. In my opinion, houndsmen are more knowledgable than the science side because of time spent following/tracking the daily life and habits of lions. Recently, the scientists and houndsmen are working together to provide usable lion data. If you don't want to believe its a lion that's ok with me. I was just trying to offer an expert opinion. If you don't want to see me as an expert thats ok too. I see over 100 treed lions each year. How many have you seen? How do you post a pic on here?
Sean

 

[Agdketo]

Quote:
Wow, that's really sad, ha hah.

I grew up in Wisconsin and luckily have had the opportunity to see both in the wild.

It is pretty awesome to see them hunting.
If you get a good look at them, the canadian lynx is the one with the long hair spikes on its ears!

What will those canuk's think of next!

I've been to Wisconsin once, I think it was in 2004. I know it was in Sheboygan county. Maybe it was Sheboygan falls to be precise? I can't remember, that was a long time ago, ha hah. It's absolutely gorgeous up there. I love hunting and fishing, and there's plenty of land up there for that. I just wouldn't wanna move away from the family farm. I suppose I wouldn't mind having a summer cabin or something up there though.​

 

[dretd]

Quote:
Sean, to post a picture go to uploads and follow the directions to download the picture from your computer. Even better would be to take an additional photo of the pelt with infrared night-vision so that the coloring would look similar to the game cam. Perhaps you could put it in front of a game cam then trigger it and download the resulting photo. The day and infrared appearance of the pelt could be very different.

I have no doubt that you have seen many lion, particularly if you are actively persuing them with a pack of dogs.. I know that Oregon has what some see as a problem with too many cougars since they banned hunting them with dogs back in the '90s. Have they repealed that law yet?

If the OP lived in Oregon, or even in my state that has a good population of cougars, I think that your go-to assessment of it being a cougar would be high on the list. Unfortunately Georgia is with minimal evidence of sightings and no established population. It would be like you getting an animal on a game cam and asking what it was and someone said to you , well its 100% a jaguarundi, I see them all the time to which you would say, gosh that doesn't seem plausible since we don't have jaguarundis in Oregon.

Going back to the photo, if you look at the size of the lower legs, they are very petite and really appear to be much smaller than a this-year's cub should be-- about an inch in diameter. Could you ask the scientists you work for to provide data for the measurments of a 12-14 inch tall cub's carpus for comparison's sake. Perhaps, since you see them daily treeing their cougars for them, you could bring printouts of the photos in and get their opinion, even though they are not as knowledgable as you, as getting a second opinion might be valuable.

 

[woodmort]

As I said a long time ago--grey foxes are very cat-like and, since they climb, I suspect their tails are "bendy" to balance them in their efforts much like a cat or squirrel or whatever. Then there is the timeline: For those that have jumped on the "It's a cougar, Mt. lion, etc" bandwagon please explain to me how a canine-like animal metamorphosed into a cat in less than a minute. Then there is the probability that a cat--be it a cougar, jaguar, or other exotic, would show up in the area where the OP lives given that none are common there. Assuming it had and she was lucky enough to capture it on the camera, then others would have some idea that it is in the neighborhood--she hasn't reported other sightings. The chance that it is a mammal common to the area--i.e. grey fox--is more likely than the guesses being made. Unless of course it was a cougar dropped by a Sasquatch from a UFO.

BTW, don't be so hard on game wardens. These are not wildlife experts but law enforcement people and, as such, know the law but shouldn't be expected to know what nonnative wildlife is in their area much unless trained to spot it. To be honest I wouldn't expect a game warden to be any more reliable in spotting a cougar than any average hunter, not to mention a nonoutdoorsman or neophyte. (Have any of ever you looked into the research done on the discrepancy in eye witnesses to crimes? They can be huge. Now put someone in the woods, scare them and let them get a glimpse at an unidentified animal--wallah, cougar. Heck there have been reports of African lions in the Scranton, PA area.) When a wildlife biologist who is actively looking into the reports of cougars--or any other "exotic" animal in a particular area--says they aren't there or the sightings are nonlocal in origin but either released exotics or wandering animals, you have to respect that.


ETA--Look at this picture again.

That is 100% grey fox.

 

[Tracydr]

Looks like cougar/panther to me as well, however, I agree that a grey fox is more likely and the tail of a grey fox can bend like this.
I think Florida and GA do have panthers. Maybe check with your Fish and Wildlife Department. They can trap and move him. They have to be moved hundreds of miles to do any good.
They will want to know, anyway. They may have a study and might want to put a tracking collar on it. Here's a little information. Sounds like they are attempting to extend the range of the Florida panther to GA in order to insure it's survival:
http://easterncougar.org/CougarNews/?p=3216

As far as game wardens, I agree, they are not always well trained in wildlife ID. I had one insist that a cougar attack on a yearling horse that I had was actually a bear. This was on the outskirts of Olympia, WA. There was little doubt this was a big cat attack, the horse's shoulder and back had been shredded as if a cat had jumped on top and then slid down one side, taking a piece of shoulder with it. It had also shredded the rump, indicating it had taken another leap and slid down the back end. I think the warden was simply trying to contain any fears of cougar attacks in the city limits by blaming it on bear. Within a week, there were several other attacks of smaller livestock in the nearby area as well as cougar sightings.

 

[dretd]

Quote:
Concur. A group of us including very small children, were hiking in Waterton Lake Park one summer (Canadian version of Glacier). We came across some fresh scat and were musing about its owner when a deer crossed the trail in front of us, looked at our party and kept going. Then a bear crossed over. looked at us and continued following the deer. Now depending on who you talk to, the bear was either a very large adult bear (maybe even a Grizzly) 20 feet away, or a smaller yearling 30 yards away. In the heat of the moment, your mind can draw conclusions and fill in gaps that you didn't actually see. Still a pretty funny story to tell when the lot of us are together.

 

[Tracydr]

I'm still trying to figure out a cat-like animal that I saw in the wilderness of FT. Sill one year while elk hunting. It was slightly larger than bobcat size with long tail, big ears and darker coat. I've looked at all the wildlife books of the Midwest and New Mexico. I've become convinced it must be an exotic escaped from captivity. there was a loose tiger in Tulsa for a few days before capture so these things do happen.