What kind of (if any) spices do you add to your feed?

[BoundlessLove]

None

 

[kattabelly]

Thanks for the links.

The first study did show a slight improvement in feed conversion, no difference in egg quality. But, there were only 5 birds per replicate, not a large number for a study. More so, there were wide swings in the feed conversion of the control group and the three groups of levels of spice given in the diet. Up to .25 points, from 2.068 to 2.3. This was in Egypt so the climate might have been more important than the spice in the feed. Super hot in one test, less not in the other, and they didn't report the differences in temperature or other factors in the weeks of testing.

But, say they are right and the test could be duplicated independantly, chicken feed is less than $1.00 per kg while spice on a wholesale level is $2.50 per kg but retail, the cheapest walmart great value brand is over $25.00 per kg. One kg would treat 33 kgs of feed at the 30grams per kg of feed level used in the study at the maximum level. 72 pounds of feed. Now the cheapest pellets I could find was $14.30 with tax. Make it easy to calculate, 1.5 bags is $21.00 and change, then add the $25.00 in oregano.

You more than doubled the cost of your feed if you are buying the spice from Walmart for a 1 to 5% feed conversion gain. Assuming the best outcome of the 12 different cadres in the test.

So using the best improvement in feed conversion from the test and the cheapest spice available to most of us, this is a dismal failure.

If you could raise your own or buy at a wholesale level somehow, $2.50 per kg added to $21 worth of pellets, roughly 12% increase in feed cost for a 5% feed conversion gain.

So, using that one study, and I did read the entire study not just the abstract, and I will read the other studies this weekend, one would have to be delusional to trade 12% cost increase for less than half that in the best possible feed conversion gain.

But, maybe the feed tastes better and maybe it makes others feel better to feed the spice. From this one study, those would be the only rational reasons to feed these two spices to your chickens.

Do the math people. Lots of well intentioned advice from good people is given without a rational or scientific basis. But it it cannot be measured it cannot be trusted.

I'll update by this weekend on the other two studies. Thanks again for taking the time and effort to provide the links.

Ok, but I posted those as examples in response to your claim that there was "no reason" and "no scientific basis" to ever provide anything other than commercial feed.

Profit isn't the only reason to do something - how many people here are even running commercial flocks? I'd imagine most are at least as motivated by other factors like their chickens' health and happiness/quality of life. Much harder to find studies specifically looking at the health etc. of backyard flocks, of course, so all we can really do is assume and extrapolate.

That context is relevant in other ways too. If you're running a massive broiler operation, buying in any feed additives will almost certainly be the only option that makes sense. If I wanted to give my chickens some thyme or oregano I could just pick a handful on my way to them. And for that little effort and no cost, if some studies have shown even minor benefits from feeding those herbs to chickens, which might also be applicable in the context of my flock, why not?

I'm not disagreeing that "because it makes people feel better to do it" isn't a factor here. I just don't think it's fair to suggest it's the only reason.

 

[WildNectarine]

Ok, but I posted those as examples in response to your claim that there was "no reason" and "no scientific basis" to ever provide anything other than commercial feed.

Profit isn't the only reason to do something - how many people here are even running commercial flocks? I'd imagine most are at least as motivated by other factors like their chickens' health and happiness/quality of life. Much harder to find studies specifically looking at the health etc. of backyard flocks, of course, so all we can really do is assume and extrapolate.

That context is relevant in other ways too. If you're running a massive broiler operation, buying in any feed additives will almost certainly be the only option that makes sense. If I wanted to give my chickens some thyme or oregano I could just pick a handful on my way to them. And for that little effort and no cost, if some studies have shown even minor benefits from feeding those herbs to chickens, which might also be applicable in the context of my flock, why not?

I'm not disagreeing that "because it makes people feel better to do it" isn't a factor here. I just don't think it's fair to suggest it's the only reason.

I’d like to add, that over my years of raising quail, I have come to learn that each bird has individual taste. It was shocking to me, as I thought they were supposed to be dumb, “bird-brained”, but they’re actually very picky, and even incredible at solving foraging puzzles, especially for their “favorite” treats. I had a quail who would run to the opening of the enclosure and jump for mealworms, my newest addition eats them last. Even when I throw out seed mixes, one will eat all of what seed they “like” first, and then get the rest after. I’m sure chickens probably have this, too, so even if there’s minor physical benefits to spices as feed additives, I think the psychological benefits are definitely there.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I was going to post that the inclusion rates needed to make even minor potential health benefits are so great as to make this not remotely cost effective, that many studies are so short and small scale as to be largely unreliable - and frequently fail to show a dose dependent relationship (a good indicator of statistical artifacts masquerading as positive results). But I see someone beat me to it.

If you want to plant herbs and allow your bird to eat them as desired? By all means. I have 10s of square feet of oregano, maybe 10 sq ft of thyme, various alliums, and a bunch of others. But having read the literature, I don't pretend there is any likelihood of any measurable health benefit in my flock.

 

[Karlkurla Chooks]

I planted some sage, thyme, and lavender near one of the water bowls. The sage is growing strong, however the thyme and lavender have been decimated...

I have large rosemary shrubs growing throughout my garden. My chooks love to nap amongst them.

 

[Al Gerhart]

I was going to post that the inclusion rates needed to make even minor potential health benefits are so great as to make this not remotely cost effective, that many studies are so short and small scale as to be largely unreliable - and frequently fail to show a dose dependent relationship (a good indicator of statistical artifacts masquerading as positive results). But I see someone beat me to it.

If you want to plant herbs and allow your bird to eat them as desired? By all means. I have 10s of square feet of oregano, maybe 10 sq ft of thyme, various alliums, and a bunch of others. But having read the literature, I don't pretend there is any likelihood of any measurable health benefit in my flock.

I am so glad you posted and had read the other studies, wasn't looking forward to it. LOL

Your post though sums things up wonderfully and one or two others posted after my diatribe. There might be some benefit to herbs but they are very, very, unlikely to be cost effective UNLESS done as you and others have done, planted the herb crop and let the hens take what they want.

I had read the entire study on that first link and like a lot of these third world studies published the abstract usually conflicts with the study. The study gave only 5 birds as the individual cohorts, extremely small but reading the study it wasn't clear how they came up with the number. It might be that English was their second language or poor translation was to blame. And yes, the statistics is where a lot of these studies fall flat on their face. I was taught to do the statistical analysis to determine the Mean before I trusted the results. Given, I was an amateur being coached by scientists but by God those men and women would be vicious to one of their own that failed to put out solid results.

 

[Al Gerhart]

Ok, but I posted those as examples in response to your claim that there was "no reason" and "no scientific basis" to ever provide anything other than commercial feed.

Profit isn't the only reason to do something - how many people here are even running commercial flocks? I'd imagine most are at least as motivated by other factors like their chickens' health and happiness/quality of life. Much harder to find studies specifically looking at the health etc. of backyard flocks, of course, so all we can really do is assume and extrapolate.

That context is relevant in other ways too. If you're running a massive broiler operation, buying in any feed additives will almost certainly be the only option that makes sense. If I wanted to give my chickens some thyme or oregano I could just pick a handful on my way to them. And for that little effort and no cost, if some studies have shown even minor benefits from feeding those herbs to chickens, which might also be applicable in the context of my flock, why not?

I'm not disagreeing that "because it makes people feel better to do it" isn't a factor here. I just don't think it's fair to suggest it's the only reason.

Good points there.

Here is the thing though, lots of folks just blindly trust the advice given here and I can see some poor soul spending money they don't have thinking the advice will save them money or make their flock healthier or less prone to disease. There truly was no scientific basis in the one study that I read and Storm crow read all of the studies and came to almost the same conclusions. Were there minuscule benefits? Maybe, at ridiculous percentages. But the proof is that were these methods delivering a cost effective actual benefit the huge poultry corporations would have incorporated herbs into their mixed feed decades ago.

The important thing here is that you helped foster the discussion, the literature was looked over, and everyone is a bit more knowledgeable including me. Thank you for that!