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[Lynzi777]

OK, maybe showing my ignorance here, but in almost 30 years of breeding rabbits, I have never heard of "fox" as a color. I know about the Silver Fox breed, but that's nothing like this Lionhead?

I've heard people toss it around with LHs, no other breeds. They call it fox because it has the gray around the ears, making it a "Smutty Orange". I think some people just prefer to call it "Fox" rather than "Smutty"
I had never heard of it either before getting my first lionhead.

 

[Bunnylady]

Quote:
the ARBA standards committee despises non-standard color/type/etc. names.

They want everybody to be on the same page, but when you have a breed called "Cinnamon" that is genetically what everyone else calls a tort, what are you gonna do?!

The ears on your rabbit are pretty dark, as is the face, which makes me suspect that genetically it is a torted otter rather than a smutty orange. That thought got me Googling. Apparently, some people call the torted otter a fox. Learn something new every day!

 

[Lynzi777]

the ARBA standards committee despises non-standard color/type/etc. names.

They want everybody to be on the same page, but when you have a breed called "Cinnamon" that is genetically what everyone else calls a tort, what are you gonna do?!

The ears on your rabbit are pretty dark, as is the face, which makes me suspect that genetically it is a torted otter rather than a smutty orange. That thought got me Googling. Apparently, some people call the torted otter a fox. Learn something new every day!

Ahhh Ok, so maybe she's not a "fox" and is just a smutty orange or Tort like you're saying. She's just so light and I thought tort was more brown. She is VM do that's where the white is coming from on her nose and she has a very light stripe up her face.

 

[Bunnylady]

At the A locus, you have 3 possibilities:

A - Agouti. Agouti patterned animals have white around the eyes, white inside their ears, white around the nostrils, under the jaw, under the belly, and on the underside of the tail. Body hairs on Agouti patterned animals typically have a dark tip, then a lighter middle band, and another band close to the skin that may be gray or white. Blowing into the coat of an Agouti usually shows a target-like pattern as the bands on the hairs line up


(this rabbit is a Chinchilla).

at -Tan. Tan patterned animals have the white ear lacing, white belly, etc, like the Agouti rabbits, but their body hairs are colored like a Self.

a - Self. The self gene allows the black pigment to appear throughout the hair shaft. The classic self-colored rabbit is pretty much the same shade of black from nose to tail, as the black pigment covers up the yellow pigment in the coat. While a lot of selfs may have a lighter under color, the dark top color sort of blends down to it, rather than showing clearly defined banding.

Orange and Tort are called non-extension colors, and are caused by the non-extension gene at the E locus. The non-extension gene acts by pushing the dark pigment back toward the tip of the hair shaft, allowing more of the yellow pigment to be exposed. Combine the non-extension gene with the Agouti gene, and you have an orange. Oranges often will have just a tiny bit of black pigment showing at the very tips of the hairs in their coats, this is called a smutty orange. The best oranges have chocolate genes; since brown is much closer to orange than black is, you don't see the darker tips.



A tort is a self-patterned rabbit with non-extension genes. Since there is a lot of black in the coat of a self-patterned rabbit, you still see a good bit of it even with the influence of the non-extension gene. The tort is pretty much orange in color on the back, with grayish to black shading on the sides, belly, feet, face and ears.

A torted otter is a tan-patterned rabbit with non-extension. It would have the body color of a Tort, but with the white "trim" like an agouti-patterned rabbit.


Orange (agouti + non-extension)



Tort (self + non-extension)


Torted Otter (Tan + non-extension) - this color is apparently called "fox" by some folks.

Just how deep the color is on a tort is partly the result of some other genes that influence the amount of red/yellow pigment that is in the coat. A tort can be rather pale, or a deep, almost brick-red color. On rabbits with long hair, all color tends to get rather washed out, as a limited amount of pigment gets spread down an extra-long hair shaft.

Comparing your rabbit to the rabbits in these pictures, I'm inclined to think that she is a torted otter (i.e. fox). Her ears and face are pretty dark; that is more like the tort and less like the orange.

 

[Lynzi777]

At the A locus, you have 3 possibilities: A - Agouti. Agouti patterned animals have white around the eyes, white inside their ears, white around the nostrils, under the jaw, under the belly, and on the underside of the tail. Body hairs on Agouti patterned animals typically have a dark tip, then a lighter middle band, and another band close to the skin that may be gray or white. Blowing into the coat of an Agouti usually shows a target-like pattern as the bands on the hairs line up (this rabbit is a Chinchilla). a[SUP]t [/SUP]-Tan. Tan patterned animals have the white ear lacing, white belly, etc, like the Agouti rabbits, but their body hairs are colored like a Self. a - Self. The self gene allows the black pigment to appear throughout the hair shaft. The classic self-colored rabbit is pretty much the same shade of black from nose to tail, as the black pigment covers up the yellow pigment in the coat. While a lot of selfs may have a lighter under color, the dark top color sort of blends down to it, rather than showing clearly defined banding. Orange and Tort are called non-extension colors, and are caused by the non-extension gene at the E locus. The non-extension gene acts by pushing the dark pigment back toward the tip of the hair shaft, allowing more of the yellow pigment to be exposed. Combine the non-extension gene with the Agouti gene, and you have an orange. Oranges often will have just a tiny bit of black pigment showing at the very tips of the hairs in their coats, this is called a smutty orange. The best oranges have chocolate genes; since brown is much closer to orange than black is, you don't see the darker tips. A tort is a self-patterned rabbit with non-extension genes. Since there is a lot of black in the coat of a self-patterned rabbit, you still see a good bit of it even with the influence of the non-extension gene. The tort is pretty much orange in color on the back, with grayish to black shading on the sides, belly, feet, face and ears. A torted otter is a tan-patterned rabbit with non-extension. It would have the body color of a Tort, but with the white "trim" like an agouti-patterned rabbit. Orange (agouti + non-extension) Tort (self + non-extension) Torted Otter (Tan + non-extension) - this color is apparently called "fox" by some folks. Just how deep the color is on a tort is partly the result of some other genes that influence the amount of red/yellow pigment that is in the coat. A tort can be rather pale, or a deep, almost brick-red color. On rabbits with long hair, all color tends to get rather washed out, as a limited amount of pigment gets spread down an extra-long hair shaft. Comparing your rabbit to the rabbits in these pictures, I'm inclined to think that she is a torted otter (i.e. fox). Her ears and face are pretty dark; that is more like the tort and less like the orange.

Thanks for those pics!! I agree Tort Otter it is!! Mine looks just like that last one. I want to make sure I correct the color when I make the pedigrees for the kits (of she ever has any)

 

[K Epp]

The breeder told me mine was a Blue Tort.

 

[PrimroseMom1]

At the A locus, you have 3 possibilities: A - Agouti. Agouti patterned animals have white around the eyes, white inside their ears, white around the nostrils, under the jaw, under the belly, and on the underside of the tail. Body hairs on Agouti patterned animals typically have a dark tip, then a lighter middle band, and another band close to the skin that may be gray or white. Blowing into the coat of an Agouti usually shows a target-like pattern as the bands on the hairs line up (this rabbit is a Chinchilla). a[SUP]t [/SUP]-Tan. Tan patterned animals have the white ear lacing, white belly, etc, like the Agouti rabbits, but their body hairs are colored like a Self. a - Self. The self gene allows the black pigment to appear throughout the hair shaft. The classic self-colored rabbit is pretty much the same shade of black from nose to tail, as the black pigment covers up the yellow pigment in the coat. While a lot of selfs may have a lighter under color, the dark top color sort of blends down to it, rather than showing clearly defined banding. Orange and Tort are called non-extension colors, and are caused by the non-extension gene at the E locus. The non-extension gene acts by pushing the dark pigment back toward the tip of the hair shaft, allowing more of the yellow pigment to be exposed. Combine the non-extension gene with the Agouti gene, and you have an orange. Oranges often will have just a tiny bit of black pigment showing at the very tips of the hairs in their coats, this is called a smutty orange. The best oranges have chocolate genes; since brown is much closer to orange than black is, you don't see the darker tips. A tort is a self-patterned rabbit with non-extension genes. Since there is a lot of black in the coat of a self-patterned rabbit, you still see a good bit of it even with the influence of the non-extension gene. The tort is pretty much orange in color on the back, with grayish to black shading on the sides, belly, feet, face and ears. A torted otter is a tan-patterned rabbit with non-extension. It would have the body color of a Tort, but with the white "trim" like an agouti-patterned rabbit. Orange (agouti + non-extension) Tort (self + non-extension) Torted Otter (Tan + non-extension) - this color is apparently called "fox" by some folks. Just how deep the color is on a tort is partly the result of some other genes that influence the amount of red/yellow pigment that is in the coat. A tort can be rather pale, or a deep, almost brick-red color. On rabbits with long hair, all color tends to get rather washed out, as a limited amount of pigment gets spread down an extra-long hair shaft. Comparing your rabbit to the rabbits in these pictures, I'm inclined to think that she is a torted otter (i.e. fox). Her ears and face are pretty dark; that is more like the tort and less like the orange.

 

[Lynzi777]

@Bunnylady this is the buck I shared pictures of when I first got him and you mentioned he be a "Frosted Pearl" after I told you he was sold to me as a Sable Point. Do you still think frosted Pearl??

 

[ShadyGroveFarm1]

Aw lionheads. One of my favorite breeds. I was so happy when they were accepted into the ARBA

 

[Bunnylady]

@Bunnylady this is the buck I shared pictures of when I first got him and you mentioned he be a "Frosted Pearl" after I told you he was sold to me as a Sable Point. Do you still think frosted Pearl??

Sable Points have really dark brown points, very nearly black, and a cream-colored body. Is it just my eyes, or are this guy's points dark gray?

Shadeds can be really nutsy-making. The shaded gene is temperature-sensitive, so the intensity of the markings can change with the seasons.

Is he the same rabbit we were talking about in this post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnylady
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynzi777

Anyone here know lionhead colors pretty well? I finally just caved and got my first lionhead! He is so adorable. He was sold to me as a sable point but the more I look at him and the more pictures I see online I'm wondering if he could be a smoke Pearl? I don't care either way, love his coloring!

He might be a color sometimes called a Pearl Point (dilute version of the Sable Point) but Sable Point is dark brown, almost black on the points and light tan on the body, not shades of gray like this guy.