What's wrong with their feathers?

Julie's test really nails down that they have a recessive copy of h (hookless) and not fr (fray). We had suspected that fr (fray) was not in play after seeing more of these birds feather out in a more uniform fashion, with less 'broken' type feathers. However though, Silkies are not the only birds (or only chickens) that have had this gene to pop up (cochins for example).

It's downright impossible to say/test to see IF/WHEN there was a Silkie/Ameraucana cross. Consider that all the breeders who've spoken up that have worked with the strains that became Julie's birds have apparently never needed to cull any silkie-type birds. From this single test mating, the chicks have come out with black skin, five toes, and feathered feet. Any breeder worth their salt would notice that their Ameraucanas were coming out all wrong (seriously - it would be pretty obvious**) and work to fix that issue.

** It's not just the recessive h (hookless) here, there are a whole set of other alleles at play: Fm for black skin, Po for five toes, etc - all of which would be a huge shock to see on hatch day.

It is possible that there was just the right amount of luck to allow a secret Silkie/Ameraucana mating that kept all those alleles (dominant and recessive) in the background (with over 9 years of no one noticing) to only come out at this point in time. But those really seem like the same amount of odds that would allow those same alleles to come up on their own, without any Silkies being present due to the crazy nature of Ameraucanas back in the 1920s.

My two cents anyway. Since they are breeding true (having no Silkie traits other than the h/hookless feathers) and are pretty close (minor improvements needed obviously, we've got some comb and color degradation from inbreeding it seems) to the Ameraucana standard - I'm going to continue to view them as Ameraucanas.

Where does one draw the line in the sand between an EE and an Ameraucana? That's really the only reason this is a big deal - Amera vs EE is always going to be a touchy subject! If after a few generations (and many years) of breeding true, they should be viewed as Ameraucanas - even if Josephine in TX started with EE's from a hatchery, before adding breeder stock. Eventually they stop being EEs and become the 'breed' as defined by the APA.
 
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I agree with you, alice. I am also going to continue to view them as Ameraucanas!
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Holy smoke, just got thru reading all 85 pages of this thread and it was a mind-blowing experience.
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Wow!!! I'm glad this project is going so well, and I'm looking forward to getting some of these at some point.
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(I only have EEs at this point, but hope for some true-blue Ameraucanas in the future.)

You guys keep up the GREAT work! I'm subscribing to the thread, and I'll be re-reading the whole thing with a bit less impetus and a lot more care. Tomorrow. I am up *way* past my bedtime! /giggles
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Ya know, we were at a clinic Saturday with an APA certified judge who is also an APA district director. He looked over an "Ameraucana" roo from....sorry, I forget which hatchery was mentioned. Everything apparently in order except the color which I gathered was why that particular bird had been brought for evaluation. They didn't know what to put down on the show entry for variety.

He of course promptly dismissed the bird as an EE, immediately DQed and chided the owner for even considering entering such a poor specimen.
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Nah, JK. That's not what he said at all. As far as I know he never even said EE. He said something to the effect that Ameraucanas were a bit more difficult as there were as many non standard colors around as there were standard/recognized colors. That particular one I think he told them to enter as a lemon blue.
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Wow, I remember this thread when it first began. Can't believe how far you all have come. Sure beats 9 mo in utero and another 18 years to see the next generation. Congrats everyone!
 
I am afraid to say this out loud, and scared to even type it.............but trying to change my luck this hatch with Julies eggs so..........out of 10 eggs, on day 6 - I have 2 non developers, 2 blood rings/non developers and gulp..........6 with nice veining. My air cells are detatched and wiggly jiggly - so I was very gentle when I candled and I just could not help candling early.

So if you have a spare good hatching vibe or strong chick growth vibe, I could use one or two or rather the 6 eggs could.
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I'll cross my fingers for you if you do for me!

I'm down to 3. The others all started but quit with detached air cells. I guess the post office was rough this time.

Mine are under a broody but I plan to pull them on day 18 in case they need help. 1 week to go!!!
 

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