- Aug 18, 2008
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Julie's test really nails down that they have a recessive copy of h (hookless) and not fr (fray). We had suspected that fr (fray) was not in play after seeing more of these birds feather out in a more uniform fashion, with less 'broken' type feathers. However though, Silkies are not the only birds (or only chickens) that have had this gene to pop up (cochins for example).
It's downright impossible to say/test to see IF/WHEN there was a Silkie/Ameraucana cross. Consider that all the breeders who've spoken up that have worked with the strains that became Julie's birds have apparently never needed to cull any silkie-type birds. From this single test mating, the chicks have come out with black skin, five toes, and feathered feet. Any breeder worth their salt would notice that their Ameraucanas were coming out all wrong (seriously - it would be pretty obvious**) and work to fix that issue.
** It's not just the recessive h (hookless) here, there are a whole set of other alleles at play: Fm for black skin, Po for five toes, etc - all of which would be a huge shock to see on hatch day.
It is possible that there was just the right amount of luck to allow a secret Silkie/Ameraucana mating that kept all those alleles (dominant and recessive) in the background (with over 9 years of no one noticing) to only come out at this point in time. But those really seem like the same amount of odds that would allow those same alleles to come up on their own, without any Silkies being present due to the crazy nature of Ameraucanas back in the 1920s.
My two cents anyway. Since they are breeding true (having no Silkie traits other than the h/hookless feathers) and are pretty close (minor improvements needed obviously, we've got some comb and color degradation from inbreeding it seems) to the Ameraucana standard - I'm going to continue to view them as Ameraucanas.
Where does one draw the line in the sand between an EE and an Ameraucana? That's really the only reason this is a big deal - Amera vs EE is always going to be a touchy subject! If after a few generations (and many years) of breeding true, they should be viewed as Ameraucanas - even if Josephine in TX started with EE's from a hatchery, before adding breeder stock. Eventually they stop being EEs and become the 'breed' as defined by the APA.
It's downright impossible to say/test to see IF/WHEN there was a Silkie/Ameraucana cross. Consider that all the breeders who've spoken up that have worked with the strains that became Julie's birds have apparently never needed to cull any silkie-type birds. From this single test mating, the chicks have come out with black skin, five toes, and feathered feet. Any breeder worth their salt would notice that their Ameraucanas were coming out all wrong (seriously - it would be pretty obvious**) and work to fix that issue.
** It's not just the recessive h (hookless) here, there are a whole set of other alleles at play: Fm for black skin, Po for five toes, etc - all of which would be a huge shock to see on hatch day.
It is possible that there was just the right amount of luck to allow a secret Silkie/Ameraucana mating that kept all those alleles (dominant and recessive) in the background (with over 9 years of no one noticing) to only come out at this point in time. But those really seem like the same amount of odds that would allow those same alleles to come up on their own, without any Silkies being present due to the crazy nature of Ameraucanas back in the 1920s.
My two cents anyway. Since they are breeding true (having no Silkie traits other than the h/hookless feathers) and are pretty close (minor improvements needed obviously, we've got some comb and color degradation from inbreeding it seems) to the Ameraucana standard - I'm going to continue to view them as Ameraucanas.
Where does one draw the line in the sand between an EE and an Ameraucana? That's really the only reason this is a big deal - Amera vs EE is always going to be a touchy subject! If after a few generations (and many years) of breeding true, they should be viewed as Ameraucanas - even if Josephine in TX started with EE's from a hatchery, before adding breeder stock. Eventually they stop being EEs and become the 'breed' as defined by the APA.