What's wrong with their feathers?

[alicefelldown]

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[silky_3699]

WOW! silkie americana! i like that!

 

[Mary Of Exeter]

Anyone have any hatching eggs? And how much?

These guys are still at the top of my wishlist.

 

[Cattitude]

When you first read it on paper, a chicken generation doesn't seem that long. When you're raising chickens and trying to develop or intensify or eliminate certain traits in your flock, a chicken generation lasts forever. *sigh* I'd love some of these beauties as well, once they become viable enough. They are SO gorgeous!

 

[alicefelldown]

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I have three Blue F1 females mated with a Splash Fluffy that are laying - I'll send you a PM.

 

[AquaEyes]

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I have three Blue F1 females mated with a Splash Fluffy that are laying - I'll send you a PM.

I've been reading this thread for a while now, and I feel I have to interject about how breeders are attempting to breed more of these birds.

The health problems you are encountering are likely connected to the degree of inbreeding that went on with getting the first few out there. I keep seeing the same breeding plan -- breed fluffy to non, then breed F1 back to fluffy parent. This is NOT the way to proceed with birds that are exhibiting inbreeding depression. I will explain.

Yes, it is true that breeding a homozygous recessive (Fluffy) to a heterozygous (non-Fluffy split to Fluffy) will give 50% Fluffy offspring, but with regards to getting fresh blood, you're taking two steps forward and one step backward.

You start with an inbred Fluffy. You breed to an unrelated non-Fluffy. The offspring get half their genes from their inbred Fluffy parent, and the other half from their non-inbred non-Fluffy parent. Then you take those hybrid offspring and breed them back to their Fluffy parent. The babies from THAT breeding now get 75% of their genes from their inbred parent/grandparent. That's two steps forward, and one step backward, with regard to getting fresh blood into an inbred line.

This is what you should to to increase the health of future generations of Fluffy Ameraucanas.

Breed a Fluffy to several unrelated healthy strong non-Fluffies. Then breed F1 offspring from one non-Fluffy parent with a half-sibling from another non-Fluffy parent. You'll get 25% Fluffy offspring from this breeding. The remaining non-Fluffy offspring have a 2/3 chance of being split to Fluffy. Yes, you'll get a lower percentage of Fluffy, but here's the benefit for an unhealthy inbred line -- these Fluffy F2's will get only 50% of their genes from their Fluffy grandparent, and the other 50% will come from two different unrelated healthy lines. Continue the process again, breeding the Fluffy F2 to several unrelated healthy non-Fluffies, and again interbreed the half-siblings. The Fluffy F4's from the second round of half-sibling matings will now have only 25% of their genes coming from the original unhealthy inbred Fluffy ancestor. You should see fewer problems related to inbreeding rather quickly.

What to do with the non-Fluffies? Well, you could cull them...or, you could use them to breed with later generations of non-Fluffies that aren't very related to them, or you could trade them with another breeder who is also working with this line. Once you start getting healthy hatches of Fluffies, THEN you can think about dipping your toes further into the inbreeding pool to get higher percentages of Fluffy offspring.

Think about it.....

ETA -- The plan I'm outlining above is the same basic plan for introducing a new gene into one breed from another. I posted a response to the Large Lavender Cochin Project thread (see post #8) with the same idea. Think of your Fluffy inbred birds as a different breed, and you want to transfer just the Fluffy characteristic, but leave off the unhealthy inbred characteristics (think of them as traits from the "other breed"). With that being your goal, you don't want to breed back to your original Fluffy, because that would also be breeding back to unhealthy inbred characteristics. Read the post I wrote in the link, and translate the premise to your breeding goals with the Fluffy Ameraucanas.

 

[jeremy]

Good thoughts... in the long run, breeding this way would benefit these birds in a very substantial way.

For those looking to make a quick buck though... it'll take too much time.

 

[AquaEyes]

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If you were concerned about a quick buck, there is nothing prohibiting the breeding back to the original inbred Fluffy at the same time as moving forward with the plan I outlined. It's not like people here breed for only one hatch at a time.

Fluffy X non-Fluffy = non-Fluffy split to Fluffy F1

Pen 1: Fluffy X non-Fluffy split to Fluffy F1 = 50% Fluffy & 50% non-Fluffy split to Fluffy (all with 75% of their genes coming from inbred, unhealthy Fluffy parent/grandparent)

Pen 2: non-Fluffy split to Fluffy F1 X non-Fluffy split to Fluffy F1 = 75% non-Fluffy (2/3 of which are split to Fluffy) & 25% Fluffy (all with 50% of their genes coming from inbred, unhealthy Fluffy grandparent)

 

[jeremy]

Again, good thoughts.

 

[alicefelldown]

Thank you for your concern - it is much appreciated. Some of us have traded among ourselves (not everything is posted in thread or auction at BYC

) and now have multiple lines of unrelated non-fluffy Ameraucanas. I know I have personally shared my B line with several other people on this project (who have asked to remain anonymous until they are more stable in their programs).

For instance (if you don't want to go back that far in the thread) - I have the following:

Fluffy Splash Male (O) - my original bird. Direct from Jubaby. Either a Son/Mom or Brother/Sister cross (all in same pen). My first chicks were from unrelated non-fluffy Ameras (line A).

Line A was mated to original Fluffy O and those fluffy chicks (AO) are still quite young.

Laying F1 females from a brother of my Fluffy male and unrelated non-fluffy Ameras (line B).

Line B females have also been mated to my original fluffy male (O) and are not yet laying (BO).

Line C unrelated non-fluffy Ameras are not of laying age yet and will be rotated into the program with the sons of A and B. (CA & CB)

The non-fluffy males from line A (so far only in blue) have many faults (red leakage, poor combs) and the few good ones are being held to mate with females from line B (BA) . Only the best looking birds are being selected (and yes, I'm culling fluffy males that are unable to grow tails) and rotated between lines. I've already seen a extraordinary increase in hatch rate and feather quality from my initial outcrossings and hope to move onto the next phase soon, as F1 line B and unrelated non-fluffy line C are soon to be laying.

Not everyone here is mating Father/Daughter and Grandfather/Daughter. Some of us are in this for the long haul - not the quick buck. One could argue that it is better to keep these birds in the hands of those who are willing to invest in strengthening this variety instead of 'selling out' to the highest bidder who will have to cull or re-home any males because they can't have them, or will further contaminate the line with more inbreeding.