Wheaten Crele Orpington Project, Reboot

[MysteryChicken]

What are you calling Partridge?

Is it one of the genes at the e locus?

Or a combination of pattern gene and some other genes that makes a multiple-laced pattern?

You would need different test-matings depending on what you are looking for.

What would be a good breed to cross to for testing?

 

[MysteryChicken]

Also I've looked everywhere for pictures of:
Db, & e^b, chick down, & Db, e+, chick down pictures, but can't find any.

The only thing that I've found that matched is one that was on TheCoop, & was a ?, & was out of a batch of Brown Leghorns if I remember correctly.

Second solid brown chick I found was of Birchen base, which my Orpingtons don't carry.

And the very first thing I found was partridge without stripes, & it matched more. The brown chick has a couple face stripes just like them.

 

[NatJ]

The brown chicks I've hatched look similar to the Stripeless partridge chicks I've seen, & need a way to confirm it is partridge.

Yes, e locus.

I don't know for sure what to cross to. Maybe an actual partridge chicken? Since e^b is supposed to be recessive to everything else you are working with.

I know Penciling requires the partridge gene, so there must be some partridge in my Orpingtons.

I am not sure the Penciling does require e^b (partridge).

I'm going by this:
https://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

I can make a "penciled" bird by adding Pg/Pg to e+/e+, or to e^b/e^b, or to e+/e^b.

I'm also seeing what appears to be wildtype e+ in my Orpingtons, due the salmon breasts on my one project hen.

If you know the exact parents of each chick, you may be able to sort it out by making a list of all the matings and what e-locus gene got passed on each time. It might be faster than doing test matings and trying to interpret the results. It sounds to me like the setup for a big logic puzzle:

Each chicken has exactly two alleles at the e locus, one from each parent, and can only pass one to each chick.

The Barred Rocks and the Black Australorps "should" have been pure for E/E.
The Buff Orpingtons "should" have been pure for E^Wh/E^Wh.
Db is called Dark Brown because of the effect on chick down (on the adult feathers it acts as a Columbian-like restrictor.)

Of course your original chickens might have had other genes than what is "supposed" to be there, but a careful check of the whole lineage might help figure it out.

Also I've looked everywhere for pictures of:
Db, & e^b, chick down, & Db, e+, chick down pictures, but can't find any.

I'm not sure about pictures, but I find some text descriptions here:
http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html#gen_mut_eumelrest

I see descriptions of Db on various e alleles, and some paragraphs further down I find a discussion of "undercolor" that says:
"Wheaten has a cream feather undercolor. e+ and eb have a gray feather undercolor even in the presence of Co."
(There are more details, but I only quoted a short bit.)
So you could look at the undercolor on your chickens to try to figure out the e locus situation.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I don't know for sure what to cross to. Maybe an actual partridge chicken? Since e^b is supposed to be recessive to everything else you are working with.


I am not sure the Penciling does require e^b (partridge).

I'm going by this:
https://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

I can make a "penciled" bird by adding Pg/Pg to e+/e+, or to e^b/e^b, or to e+/e^b.



If you know the exact parents of each chick, you may be able to sort it out by making a list of all the matings and what e-locus gene got passed on each time. It might be faster than doing test matings and trying to interpret the results. It sounds to me like the setup for a big logic puzzle:

Each chicken has exactly two alleles at the e locus, one from each parent, and can only pass one to each chick.

The Barred Rocks and the Black Australorps "should" have been pure for E/E.
The Buff Orpingtons "should" have been pure for E^Wh/E^Wh.
Db is called Dark Brown because of the effect on chick down (on the adult feathers it acts as a Columbian-like restrictor.)

Of course your original chickens might have had other genes than what is "supposed" to be there, but a careful check of the whole lineage might help figure it out.


I'm not sure about pictures, but I find some text descriptions here:
http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html#gen_mut_eumelrest

I see descriptions of Db on various e alleles, and some paragraphs further down I find a discussion of "undercolor" that says:
"Wheaten has a cream feather undercolor. e+ and eb have a gray feather undercolor even in the presence of Co."
(There are more details, but I only quoted a short bit.)
So you could look at the undercolor on your chickens to try to figure out the e locus situation.

Topaz has gray down feathers, but were black when she was feathering out.

My Barred hen with salmon breasts have grey down feathers.

I'll have to check Goober, & Dino.

Wheaty has reddish cream down feathers.


I use the genetics calculator too, & have experimented with those same genes.


I know Db is called Dark Brown.


I know the parents very well since from the beginning of the project.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

@RoostersAreAwesome, What should I breed to my Orpingtons to confirm that they carry partridge?

I don’t know. I’d assume a partridge. But a partridge crossed to a non-partridge can still give you some penciling.

I do know that I’ve seen a lot of buff x blacks and buff x black barreds with some kind of partridge-looking pattern. I don’t think it’s a spontaneous or one-time event.

 

[Lydia Huizenga]

So happy I found another thread of yours.

 

[MysteryChicken]

So happy I found another thread of yours.

Glad your here to follow along.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I don’t know. I’d assume a partridge. But a partridge crossed to a non-partridge can still give you some penciling.

I do know that I’ve seen a lot of buff x blacks and buff x black barreds with some kind of partridge-looking pattern. I don’t think it’s a spontaneous or one-time event.

Still trying to figure out this girl. I'm pretty sure she has partridge due to her Penciling.
I don't want Penciling on my Orpingtons, but I may make silver Pencilled Orpingtons sometime.

Her as a chick. She's solid Chestnut. She was an accidental cross of Buff Orpington/Barred Rock X RIR.

Can't tell really well, but she has eye stripes.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I guess I can assume it was an unintentional test crossing then.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I might cross one Project Orpington rooster with my Red JungleFowl hybrid hen, with the partridge pattern next year just for confirmation. Or breed partridge Silkie rooster to a Buff Orpington hen.