- Jul 14, 2009
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Quote:
Nice!
Nice!
When does a bloodline become "Yours"
- Thread starter Celtic Hill
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- Jan 14, 2008
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This would be my position as well.
I find it hard to grap this concept (and im trying) i guess its because im a horse person and we specify bloodlines with a specific gene pool and it carries with it's progny through registration papers and i guess because you don't "register" chickens it makes it diffrent.
Can you "hatch" 200 foals from your mare in a year? Chickens & horses, kind of like apples & oranges.
This would be my position as well.
I find it hard to grap this concept (and im trying) i guess its because im a horse person and we specify bloodlines with a specific gene pool and it carries with it's progny through registration papers and i guess because you don't "register" chickens it makes it diffrent.
Can you "hatch" 200 foals from your mare in a year? Chickens & horses, kind of like apples & oranges.
- Sep 24, 2010
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Can you "hatch" 200 foals from your mare in a year? Chickens & horses, kind of like apples & oranges.
Not necessarily. We are talking generations and not number or offspring. Horses and chickens have lines and they also have pedigrees with generations on them. Most people just don't bother to write down the pedigree. Just think of it the same way as a horse pedigree and registration paper. It would have the same basic principle.
I know i didn't officially consider my line of rabbits to be "my lines" until I'd produced 3 generations(an entire pedigree) that was entire offspring of my own breeding selection, but perhaps that was just me.
I think the problem is that chickens don't have pedigrees generally.
Not necessarily. We are talking generations and not number or offspring. Horses and chickens have lines and they also have pedigrees with generations on them. Most people just don't bother to write down the pedigree. Just think of it the same way as a horse pedigree and registration paper. It would have the same basic principle.
I know i didn't officially consider my line of rabbits to be "my lines" until I'd produced 3 generations(an entire pedigree) that was entire offspring of my own breeding selection, but perhaps that was just me.
I think the problem is that chickens don't have pedigrees generally.
- Nov 18, 2008
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Birds unlike mammals are not Herdbook registered, no history of mating,as in a pedigree, is required.
Chickens are Standard bred, to be as close as possible to a written description. The people that sell chickens on pedigrees, stressing a breeder some 5, 6 or more generations in the past are kidding themselves, and discrediting the original breeder.
As stated ,you can not compare apples & oranges.
Chickens are Standard bred, to be as close as possible to a written description. The people that sell chickens on pedigrees, stressing a breeder some 5, 6 or more generations in the past are kidding themselves, and discrediting the original breeder.
As stated ,you can not compare apples & oranges.
Honestly, I don't every really use the term 'line' to notate my birds and their breedings. I refer to them as 'a flock'. I have a flock of Ameraucanas. I began with a rooster from a local fellow I met at a show. I used him w/my hens for a year. I then found another rooster who belonged to a 4H boy. Used him for 6 months.. ect - I have since culled and culled. And added to 'my flock' some from birds from a woman down south. But it is still - 'my flock'. I just made tweaks to it, is all. Honestly, I don't know that anyone else would want credit for them? Just sayin.
I have heard other breeders say such things as, "Oh, you have BLRWs? I know a fellow in (name a state) who has a nice flock of those. You may want to look him up if you want to add to it."
I have heard other breeders say such things as, "Oh, you have BLRWs? I know a fellow in (name a state) who has a nice flock of those. You may want to look him up if you want to add to it."
As for "pedigrees" there ARE some folks that do that and I see nothing wrong with it.
The UK breeders are or was starting to put pedigrees on their chickens however the lineage word would be written up differently for each individual breeding pens. It would be written for ONE flock of chicken in ONE pen. It looked like this:
Mr Red Man h: 5/10/08 RIR
Mr Red Rooster h: 9/1/10 RIR
RIR Mohawk h: 5/10/08 RIR
Mr Red Man h: 5/10/08 RIR
RIR MohawkRedMan
RIR Mohawk
Unless it is a pair OR a different color of hen that sticks out a sore thumb, all the females do not have names but names of the breeder OR strain or original rooster name. That would consider as a pedigree and a breeder can make their own certificate, signature, gold or embossed seal on the certificate and NPIP number if any.
The Faverolles are getting into the male name strains and the breeder can be a useful tool wanting to line breed to that particuar rooster to get the best possible traits for the chick.
The UK breeders are or was starting to put pedigrees on their chickens however the lineage word would be written up differently for each individual breeding pens. It would be written for ONE flock of chicken in ONE pen. It looked like this:
Mr Red Man h: 5/10/08 RIR
Mr Red Rooster h: 9/1/10 RIR
RIR Mohawk h: 5/10/08 RIR
Mr Red Man h: 5/10/08 RIR
RIR MohawkRedMan
RIR Mohawk
Unless it is a pair OR a different color of hen that sticks out a sore thumb, all the females do not have names but names of the breeder OR strain or original rooster name. That would consider as a pedigree and a breeder can make their own certificate, signature, gold or embossed seal on the certificate and NPIP number if any.
The Faverolles are getting into the male name strains and the breeder can be a useful tool wanting to line breed to that particuar rooster to get the best possible traits for the chick.
- Jan 14, 2008
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Quote:
Agreed. I've seen people claiming to have [fill in the blank's line] because that's who they bought birds from originally. The only problem was they mated them poorly in the intervening generations or possibly mixed in "new blood" & the resultant birds were in no wat representative of the original line. They were absolutely the product of the new breeder.
Agreed. I've seen people claiming to have [fill in the blank's line] because that's who they bought birds from originally. The only problem was they mated them poorly in the intervening generations or possibly mixed in "new blood" & the resultant birds were in no wat representative of the original line. They were absolutely the product of the new breeder.
Quote:
Agreed. I've seen people claiming to have [fill in the blank's line] because that's who they bought birds from originally. The only problem was they mated them poorly in the intervening generations or possibly mixed in "new blood" & the resultant birds were in no wat representative of the original line. They were absolutely the product of the new breeder.
HOw true this is!
Agreed. I've seen people claiming to have [fill in the blank's line] because that's who they bought birds from originally. The only problem was they mated them poorly in the intervening generations or possibly mixed in "new blood" & the resultant birds were in no wat representative of the original line. They were absolutely the product of the new breeder.
HOw true this is!
This can be so subjective.
1) When I started with one particular Cochin variety, I got the best pair I could from a Master Breeder of that particular variety. I have a closed flock - I have introduced no new blood. So now all the breeding and culling decisions are mine, but until my birds can stand by themselves on reputation alone, I don't think I would consider ever calling them my "line". Nor would I any longer consider them "Master Breeder X Line". I would not qualify or sell them as anyone's particular line; they are just my birds, and hopefully the buyer will appreciate my breeding & culling decisions. But if someone wants to know where my original stock or bloodline came from, I have no problem with that. I never asked the Master Breeder what "lines' her birds were from - they stand by themselves on reputation alone.
2) I also participate in the Mille Fleur Cochin project - there are so many breeders involved now, the bloodlines (and genes) are all over the place. When I'm considering purchasing a new MF, I DO ask where their stock came from, as I've been following what the various breeders are adding to their projects, and I (think!) know now what will work for me and what won't. But until I can get the offspring breeding true for several generations, they won't be my "lines" either - just my version of the MF project. (There are a couple of MF breeders that have been in it from the start, have closed flocks, and you can recognize their birds - they have developed their own 'lines', and if you buy from them, you know what you're getting.)
3) I have another color variety project I'm working on by myself. In a few more generations, if I'm successful
, that WILL most definitely be my line!
1) When I started with one particular Cochin variety, I got the best pair I could from a Master Breeder of that particular variety. I have a closed flock - I have introduced no new blood. So now all the breeding and culling decisions are mine, but until my birds can stand by themselves on reputation alone, I don't think I would consider ever calling them my "line". Nor would I any longer consider them "Master Breeder X Line". I would not qualify or sell them as anyone's particular line; they are just my birds, and hopefully the buyer will appreciate my breeding & culling decisions. But if someone wants to know where my original stock or bloodline came from, I have no problem with that. I never asked the Master Breeder what "lines' her birds were from - they stand by themselves on reputation alone.
2) I also participate in the Mille Fleur Cochin project - there are so many breeders involved now, the bloodlines (and genes) are all over the place. When I'm considering purchasing a new MF, I DO ask where their stock came from, as I've been following what the various breeders are adding to their projects, and I (think!) know now what will work for me and what won't. But until I can get the offspring breeding true for several generations, they won't be my "lines" either - just my version of the MF project. (There are a couple of MF breeders that have been in it from the start, have closed flocks, and you can recognize their birds - they have developed their own 'lines', and if you buy from them, you know what you're getting.)
3) I have another color variety project I'm working on by myself. In a few more generations, if I'm successful
Quote:
I find it hard to grap this concept (and im trying) i guess its because im a horse person and we specify bloodlines with a specific gene pool and it carries with it's progny through registration papers and i guess because you don't "register" chickens it makes it diffrent.
Can you "hatch" 200 foals from your mare in a year? Chickens & horses, kind of like apples & oranges.
Terrific post.
I find it hard to grap this concept (and im trying) i guess its because im a horse person and we specify bloodlines with a specific gene pool and it carries with it's progny through registration papers and i guess because you don't "register" chickens it makes it diffrent.
Can you "hatch" 200 foals from your mare in a year? Chickens & horses, kind of like apples & oranges.
Terrific post.
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