Where can I find Penciled Runner ducks for sale?

[TomCahalan]

My guess is that her fawn and whites aren't really fawn and white, but have only one blue allele. I'm not sure what you would call that, half-penciled or something. Perhaps they are all siblings and come from a cross between a penciled and a fawn and white. Then they would produce 1/4 penciled.

The "chocolate" is pied, so maybe it is hard to figure out what his true color is, since only a portion of his body reflects it.

 

[Pyxis]

My guess is that her fawn and whites aren't really fawn and white, but have only one blue allele. I'm not sure what you would call that, half-penciled or something. Perhaps they are all siblings and come from a cross between a penciled and a fawn and white. Then they would produce 1/4 penciled.

The "chocolate" is pied, so maybe it is hard to figure out what his true color is, since only a portion of his body reflects it.

That would make sense, and it would be the only way they could produce pencilled.

The blue female duck is a bit of a mystery, though. If she's really blue, none of those listed drakes could have actually been the father.

 

[Runner duck mom]

I've never been able to make much sense of genetics/ breeding for color. But we hatched 2 of @DuckyDonna s eggs this year and got a blue drake and chocolate female. Both came from her chocolate drake if that helps at all

 

[DuckyDonna]

I've never been able to make much sense of genetics/ breeding for color. But we hatched 2 of @DuckyDonna s eggs this year and got a blue drake and chocolate female. Both came from her chocolate drake if that helps at all View attachment 2036013

that's the truth! The only father could have been my chocolate drake because the other 2 drakes were too young to start mating yet! The mothers could only have been either the 3 older f/w or the 3 younger f/w (which includes the penciled). I will post pictures tomorrow of who is who because now I'm really curious as to how all this happened.

 

[DuckyDonna]

Ok here is the progression of my flock.

My original ducks came from this hatch. I'm assuming the big ducks are the parents. Interestingly after these babies grew up and mated I ended up with 2 ducks in the first hatch I incubated that look exactly like the adults in the picture.

These are the 4 ducks that came from the hatch in the above picture. One drake and 3 girls. I still have all the girls.

Those above ducks mated and gave me these kids. The middle duck is the only one I still have.

I had to give away the drake on the right (above) and kept the white one. He got killed so I was on the hunt for another drake and found this chocolate boy on Craig's list.

He mated with the f/w girls in the picture with the purple necks and made these babies. The dark one and the blue one.

I
I gave another person eggs from the chocolate boy and the f/w girls and these are hers. (She hatched 9 eggs and out of that 7 boys and 2 girls)

@Runner duck mom has posted a picture of her ducks from my eggs too. Of course, we have no idea which f/w is the mother but the chocolate boy is definitely the dad of all of them.

I hope these pictures will solve the mystery about how the heck I ended up with a penciled! I always go back to that very first picture and there is a penciled one right there.

 

[TomCahalan]

Ok, it looks like both of my theories were correct. Your "fawn and whites" are actually "blue fawn and white" or half-penciled. Your "chocolate" is actually black.

Generation 1: Fawn and White under White x Penciled.

Generation 2: Blue Fawn and White split to White

Generation 3, from left: White, Penciled, F&W or Blue F&W. You acquired a Black to mate with the Penciled.

Generation 4: Blues with white markings, Blacks with white markings

I am not sure what the white markings are. Pied or some sort of bibbing?

 

[DuckyDonna]

Ok, it looks like both of my theories were correct. Your "fawn and whites" are actually "blue fawn and white" or half-penciled. Your "chocolate" is actually black.

Generation 1: Fawn and White under White x Penciled.

Generation 2: Blue Fawn and White split to White

Generation 3, from left: White, Penciled, F&W or Blue F&W. You acquired a Black to mate with the Penciled.

Generation 4: Blues with white markings, Blacks with white markings

I am not sure what the white markings are. Pied or some sort of bibbing?

so which one is the blue fawn in generation 2? Is it the one of the right in the picture where they are eating out of the food bowl? I bet it is. That one was always a dusky bluish color even when he was a tiny baby.

How do you tell the chocolate is black? He looked brown when I first got him at 3 months old and then he started to get really dark/black and now he's quite light brown again.

No, I didn't get the black/brown just to mate with the penciled. He was mating with all 6 of my girls including the penciled but I have no idea who's "babymomma" of any of the ones I've hatched so far. The only thing I know for sure is that brown duck is the daddy. Surely some of generation 4 "might" be pencil's kids but I have no way of knowing.

Oh and the dad of the 3 at the food bowl is pictured in picture #2 looked like a regular old F/w. I don't have him anymore. He was a butt-head so I found him a new home.

 

[TomCahalan]

> so which one is the blue fawn in generation 2?

Probably all of them, at least both of the parents of the penciled.

> How do you tell the chocolate is black?

I am new to ducks so I don't know my colors well, but him being black is the only explanation that allows the genetic math to make sense. He has a greenish head, which I think only happens on black feathers.

> He was mating with all 6 of my girls including the penciled

Yes, my mistake. Those blue and whites can only be from your Blue F&W, whereas the blacks can come from either.

That black drake could be her son, in which case he would be split to brown, as well as black, which would have a chance of producing penciled with her. The drake would need to give the brown and not the black (so that's a 25% chance). I'm not sure if that gives a 25% or if there are other genes at play.

If the black pied isn't her son, then it is still probably your best drake moving forward. They could produce a son that would be useful for further breeding.

 

[DuckyDonna]

> so which one is the blue fawn in generation 2?

Probably all of them, at least both of the parents of the penciled.

> How do you tell the chocolate is black?

I am new to ducks so I don't know my colors well, but him being black is the only explanation that allows the genetic math to make sense. He has a greenish head, which I think only happens on black feathers.

> He was mating with all 6 of my girls including the penciled

Yes, my mistake. Those blue and whites can only be from your Blue F&W, whereas the blacks can come from either.

That black drake could be her son, in which case he would be split to brown, as well as black, which would have a chance of producing penciled with her. The drake would need to give the brown and not the black (so that's a 25% chance). I'm not sure if that gives a 25% or if there are other genes at play.

If the black pied isn't her son, then it is still probably your best drake moving forward. They could produce a son that would be useful for further breeding.

Ok, man, you know your stuff. I get so confused with all this. I wasn't any good in chemistry either. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me.

The parents of the penciled duck are in picture #2 for sure because there was no other possibility at that time. Their parents are picture #1

Is the all-white one was considered blue fawn? He didn't have one speck of any other color on him. I loved that drake so much and was devastated when he was murdered by that falcon which I, of course, walked right in on to see the horror of it all.

Yes, my little chocolate/black Sambo did have a green head last summer but it's not anymore. He has really lightened up a lot. The guy I got him from was told he was chocolate but we all know how that goes.

So if I am understanding right I need to try to mate my young black/pied drake (Patches) with the penciled? He is looking so much like his daddy now except that he's got the white patches on his chest. He's not very nice to his dad either.

I have tried looking this up and have asked but can't find the answer to what exactly does pied mean? I always thought it was those white spots on the breast like in a blue Swedish. And my Patches and Blu.

 

[Pyxis]

Is the all-white one was considered blue fawn? He didn't have one speck of any other color on him. I loved that drake so much and was devastated when he was murdered by that falcon which I, of course, walked right in on to see the horror of it all.

No, he's considered White. He definitely had other color genes since white just 'covers them up', but he was white. One of the original parents were white, and white is recessive, so all the ducklings you got from those parents were split to white. Then you bred them together, and of course a white duckling was produced - your drake, which you lost. All your birds from the original pair are split to white and could still produce whites if they were bred to a white bird or a bird carrying white.

Yes, my little chocolate/black Sambo did have a green head last summer but it's not anymore. He has really lightened up a lot. The guy I got him from was told he was chocolate but we all know how that goes.

Do you have a current picture of him? I vaguely remember awhile ago we were questioning if he was chocolate or black. When he first molts, do the new feathers come in brown, or black? I'm thinking he may be a black that is just sun bleaching brown. A real chocolate would be chocolate all the time.

I have tried looking this up and have asked but can't find the answer to what exactly does pied mean? I always thought it was those white spots on the breast like in a blue Swedish. And my Patches and Blu.

The white on the chest is Bibbing. It's a dominant gene, linked to Extended Black. If you breed a duck that's on the black base, bibbing comes along with it. You can remove this bibbing by adding the Dusky gene, which is how you can get solid black/blue/chocolate etc birds without the bibbing.

Pied is caused by the Runner gene which, as you would imagine, is named after Runners and their Fawn and White coloration. Pied is white markings places other than the chest. It's what causes the white markings in Fawn and White color, it's what causes the white patterning in Magpie, it's what causes the white in Ancona color, etc.