Where did these black combs come from?

[Fluster Cluck Acres]

My hens are all various standard size not rare heritage breeds from feed stores (except for my Rhode Island Blue and a Blue Rock hens). My first rooster was an Orpington, second and current rooster was his son- orpington x Rhode Island blue hen. I have no ayam cemani or silkie chickens in my flock.

So why do some of my chicks have black combs?

They seem to come mostly from the chickens sired by current rooster (Orp x Rhode Island blue) and out of my SLW hen. But I also have 1 from my Blue Rock (aka Sapphire Gem) hen. I know some chicks outgrow it, but I have a 4 month old pullet whose comb is still black. So what gives?

Here is a post I made about my 4 month old pullet. Most recent pic is in the comments.

And here is a post I made about my current rooster and his now 4 month old son having black freckles on their comb. In this post, one reply mentioned melanosis. Could that explain the black combs?

Here are my current black combed babies. The rose combed chick in the 1st and 3rd pics are a full sibling to the 4 month old pullet. Mom is SLW. The chick in the middle pic that I’m holding is by the same rooster and out of a Blue Rock (Sapphire Gem) hen.

Any of you genetic experts (or anyone who understands it better than I do) have an idea what’s going on here? And what it means for future offspring from these black combed babies?

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

It's fairly common for black or mostly black chickens to have pigmented combs when very young like this despite not having the genetics for fibromelanosis. The pigment generally fades away, either mostly or entirely, at maturity when the comb grows and flushes red. I've never heard of it referred to as melanosis, but maybe that is what it's called. But it's not abnormal and nothing to worry about.

I don't know offhand what the exact genetics are, per se, but it seems to be connected to E extended black and ER birchen, both genes that produce a mostly black bird (assuming no dilution genes or other modifiers are present). Some of my Blue and Black Cochin bantams hatch with dark combs like this and mature without any pigmentation in their combs.

@Amer might have more info, I think I've seen them comment on this type of thing before.

 

[MysteryChicken]

It's extra pigmentation, most likely from the blue hen. Blue is Black, which is diluted by the Blue gene. Extended Black sometimes will extend into the face, sometimes it'll stay, other times it'll disappear as the chicks mature.

 

[Fluster Cluck Acres]

It's fairly common for black or mostly black chickens to have pigmented combs when very young like this despite not having the genetics for fibromelanosis. The pigment generally fades away, either mostly or entirely, at maturity when the comb grows and flushes red.

So if it’s going to fade, at what age would that happen? I’ve had plenty of chicks hatch with black combs but they fade quickly- usually a few days. Sometimes a couple weeks. But I have a 4 month old whose comb hasn’t changed much since she was a chick, and the the other rose comb baby is already 6 weeks. I’ve still been waiting for the straight comb chick to fade, but am holding out hope because he/she is a pretty neat “slate blue” or near-black blue type.

Do you think it’s possible the 4 month old’s comb will still fade?

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

It's really hard to say, especially in mixes where there might be other genetics playing a part in it. I've seen black sexlinks (a specific mix with which you can tell males and females apart at hatch) hold onto some pigment in their combs and faces even past laying and into adulthood. I would expect there to be less black by the time they go into lay if pullets, or by the time their combs come in in cockerels, but it's hard to say when it might fade or how much. It's definitely still possible for a 4-month-old to eventually lose that pigment, though!

 

[Amer]

It's fairly common for black or mostly black chickens to have pigmented combs when very young like this despite not having the genetics for fibromelanosis. The pigment generally fades away, either mostly or entirely, at maturity when the comb grows and flushes red. I've never heard of it referred to as melanosis, but maybe that is what it's called. But it's not abnormal and nothing to worry about.

I don't know offhand what the exact genetics are, per se, but it seems to be connected to E extended black and ER birchen, both genes that produce a mostly black bird (assuming no dilution genes or other modifiers are present). Some of my Blue and Black Cochin bantams hatch with dark combs like this and mature without any pigmentation in their combs.

@Amer might have more info, I think I've seen them comment on this type of thing before.

Yes it is common for crossbred hens on a mostly black base to have dark combs and faces, known as mulberry face. Especially if their combs are a smaller type. Since there is a recombination of genes, sometimes the combination of the id+ gene passed from fathers to daughters to combine with the extended black of a black or birchen based hen without the id+ gene. (Dark shanks do not necessarily indicate id+ since the extended black gene and birchen gene cause epidermal melanin which gives dark shanks but looks more shallow and black and spotty than the even grey epidermal melanin that id+ imparts.)
I had this happen when my Dominique bantam hen decided to hatch eggs in secret (sired by a wheaten Ameraucana, incidentally.) Her black base and his id+ produced a pullet who grew into a hen with dark purple skin. Even at 4 years of age, her walnut comb was still quite purpley.
Considering id+ only needs one copy to express in females but two in males it is likely your dark skinned chicks are female.

Dark facial skin is also found in the Sumatra, Modern Game, and Sebright breeds, to name a few.

 

[Fluster Cluck Acres]

It's definitely still possible for a 4-month-old to eventually lose that pigment, though!

Thats good to know in case it happens, thanks. I’d thought by now it would for sure stay. I hope it does but at least I’m mentally prepared that it might still fade.

 

[Fluster Cluck Acres]

Considering id+ only needs one copy to express in females but two in males it is likely your dark skinned chicks are female.

This is really interesting to know. The 4-month old pullet is the first black combed chick I’ve kept. I didn’t know it was a girl and hoped for the best (I’m seem to be particularly skilled at hatching roosters ).

I actually have 2 six-week old chicks with black combs. Both full siblings to the 4-month pullet. The one pictured in my post has a solid black comb (O’Doyle), whereas the other chick’s is only partially black (Miss Lippy, pictured here). I was suspecting Miss Lippy to be male, as the not black portion of the comb is pretty red already, and the wattles are fairly red. I haven’t made a guess yet on O’Doyle because the comb is all black and the wattles are either dark colored or haven’t come in yet. But now I’m curious if Miss Lippy will turn out to be camel after all.

Dark facial skin is also found in the Sumatra, Modern Game, and Sebright breeds, to name a few.

I don’t have any of those breeds in my flock, although most of my stock originated from feed stores & hatcheries so I’m sure anything is possible to have worked it’s way in.

I’m curious- why would smaller combed breeds be more likely to show the mulberry comb?