/where do you order seeds/plants?

[erinszoo]

Quote:
That's not quite an accurate description. Strains do have to be several generations old to be considered heirloom but many have been hybridized over the centuries to get to what they are today. Heirloom's are supposed to produce "pure" offspring but because heirloom plants are free pollinated, they can produce "off" products. Melons, squash, and cucumbers are the worst for crossing naturally (through wind and bugs) but tomatoes and beans can be crossed on accident too. They also are NOT more resistant to bugs in any way at all. Most are MORE susceptible to bugs and disease ... that's usually why they are hybridized in the first place - to make them more resistant to disease.

Hybridized plants are not the same as GMO products. Monks in the twelfth century were hybridizing plants ... almost nothing we grow today is a "pure" and original plant given the many centuries of gardening that have gone on before us. GMO is done in a laboratory and adds genes from non-plant products to the plants, like chemicals to kill bugs. Hybridizing is done in the field or greenhouse by taking pollen from one plant and introducing it to another plant, exactly like bees or the wind would do. Hybrids and heirlooms are both completely natural products.

There are several non-GMO seed companies out there with great products. Territorial seed and Cook's garden are the two we like best and over 20 years of gardening have had the best and most consistent success with even during trying weather conditions. Last year was our first year to use Baker Creek and we were horribly disappointed with them. Almost nothing grew and the things that did didn't produce the products they were supposed to produce ...

 

[coffeenutdesign]

Heirlooms do not produce a sterile seed and are not patented against reusing the offspring seeds.

 

[mdbtalon]

Heirloom seeds can be great, but I would take exception to the earlier comment they are "more resistant to bugs and just plain wonderful". Yes they can be wonderful, but in general there is a trade-off. If heirloom seeds were always the best at everything then farmers would gladly buy those seeds and use them for things like corn or beans rather than the GMO seeds that most are using. The GMO seeds they buy are incredibly expensive and come with a whole lot of stipulations for use (and re-use). They use them because they often excel at specific things (yield, resistance to bugs/disease, etc). Using heirloom seeds means you will not have seeds that have insecticide "built in" which means it may take a little more work on your part...... but also means you will not be eating the insecticides

Not that I am suggesting not to use heirloom seeds. That is what I use for most crops, and in general feel I am rewarded with better tasting results without having to worry about what is going on with GMO seeds.

 

[mothergoose]

I too am a baker creek fan, pinetree, tomato growers, and seed saver exchange. I have had fantastic luck with seeds from all four places and I have several favorites that I naturally can't get all from one seed company.
Have fun seed shopping, I already ordered for this year.
Christie

 

[smilingcat]

places to order:

Bakers heirloom seeds: rareseeds.com (Missouri)
Seeds of change: Seedsofchange.com (Minnesota)
Abundant life/territorial seed company: territorialseed.com (Oregon)
Victory Seeds: victoryseeds.com (Oregon)
Peaceful valley farm and garden supply: groworganic.com (California)
Johnny's Seeds (also sells GMO?): johnnyseeds.com (Maine)

and if you are interested in perrenial bushes and trees:
One Green World: onegreenworld.com (Oregon)

Johnny's seed is more for commercial growers but will be more than happy to sell to small backyard gardener.
Victory seeds is a very small operation and will not wholesale. But they do carry great selection. Rated in top 5 by Dave's Garden
Peacful Valley is a reseller of seeds but worth checking. They also have "how-to-..." youtube videos. Check it out.

If you want to start growing early, might consider using agribon. On east coast, order from Johnny's seeds or if you are on the west coast order from Peaceful Valley. And if you are in central part of the country order from Farmtek.com out of Iowa. Help you out on shipping cost.

hope this helps.

And yes Dave's Garden is a good place to check on the online stores.

 

[maggienchamp]

GrowOrganic.com

All seeds are organic and non-GMO I get my seeds from them every year! Love the company

 

[1MrsMagoo]

I put in over an acre of gardens every year and use, in no particular order:

Sustainable Seed Company: I've had very good results with their seeds over the years. They have a ton of winter squash varieties that are hard to find elsewhere. Also, you can control what quantity of seed you want, by the packet or the ounce. They tell you approximately how many seeds are in each offering. Nearly everything sold on this site is an open pollinated or heirloom variety.

Mountain Valley Seed Company. I have some seeds (kept in the fridge) that I purchased from them 5 years ago that I still am getting @70% germination on. They measure everything by the ounce or pound, so when I first purchased from them, I didn't realize just how many seeds I would be getting. The prices were SO reasonable, that it was only when several of my packets of watermelon seeds were football sized did I realize....oops, I bought WAY too many.

Johnny's Select Seeds. Great people...excellent selection.

Marianna's Heirloom Seeds. I have purchased 30+ packets of tomato and pepper seeds. She started by collecting seeds from tomatoes from private gardens and several are now my favorite varieties.

Giant Tomato Seeds.com. Nearly all the seeds sold on this site come from parents that produced individual tomatoes well over 1lb in size. Great germination rates.

Grow Organic.com. Nothing but good things to say about them.

Territorial Seed Company. Used them for three years with good results.

and finally....a new one from the past two seasons,
The Seed Kingdom. A very small operation with good selection and prices. No printed catalog...just online.

Good luck and happy gardening.

 

[Peaches Lee]

That's not quite an accurate description. Strains do have to be several generations old to be considered heirloom but many have been hybridized over the centuries to get to what they are today. But that is exactly the point, they were crossed centuries ago and developed into a pure strain that is producing a uniform offspring like the parents. Today, the plants need not cross for the desired outcome.

Heirloom's are supposed to produce "pure" offspring but because heirloom plants are free pollinated, they can produce "off" products. Melons, squash, and cucumbers are the worst for crossing naturally (through wind and bugs) but tomatoes and beans can be crossed on accident too. If one was to desire selling pure heirloom seeds, they would be wise to not propagate/grow plants of different breeds that share the same genus within close range (squash and melons for example will cross pollinate). Small gardeners can do the same or just let nature take its course and up with hybrids (with plants that share the same genus).

They also are NOT more resistant to bugs in any way at all. Most are MORE susceptible to bugs and disease ... that's usually why they are hybridized in the first place - to make them more resistant to disease. This is usually one of the hallmarks of heirlooms, disease and pest resistance (usually to the area they are native to.), sorry, but that's the general consensus.

 

[erinszoo]

Quote:
Clearly we have different sources for information regarding Heirloom seeds and plants but instead of arguing the point with you any more, I simply invite you to read anything you can find written by Thomas Jefferson on gardening. Some of his journals are a great read and very insightful into many varieties people consider "heirloom" today. He used to plant his melons, cucumbers and squashes altogether just to get the seed to cross pollinate so he could spoof his gardening friends by giving them the seeds to grow to see what would come out of it. Luckily, his gardening pals were quite amused by it and took great delight in finding out what they would get. In his generation, most people didn't even have different names for seed varieties and they got what they got from whoever had seed for something. It wasn't until the advent of using seed "catalogs" that names were given to different plant types but even then it wasn't until 1940's or after that the names were even remotely standardized across all the companies. Different places called the same seed by different names almost as a rule. So tell me, please, how you know that your seed for Brandywine tomatoes that are considered an heirloom are actually what were originally called Brandywine tomatoes? There is no government agency that regulates seed names or products, and even if there were, now, it wouldn't make a difference to what has been done in the past. Heirlooms really aren't that big of a deal to get worked up over.

Just grow what you like and what works for you in your environment. That's what our ancestors did.

 

[Peaches Lee]

I guess I just find myself scratching my head at your posts. I suppose how I see heirloom vegetables is how I see purebred horses.

Back in the day (let's say 1800) some farmers wanted *insert desired trait here* so they found horses that closely resembled those traits. They bred these horses and kept records by establishing a stud book. They kept the desired foals that reached close to the desired outcome and took notes on what didn't work. They added new blood and crossed lines and even line bred and once they finally found the "perfect" horse that produced itself with high heritability, they closed their studbooks and did not allow new blood in, making the breed PURE. This process is how I view heirloom plants. After so many years of not letting new genes in, the plants are considered pure.

I totally agree with you that when, for example, someone in Jefferson's age was playing around with their plants genetics that THEN those mixed plants were not pure or heirloom, but once they essentially "closed" their books so to speak, what we can enjoy today is that heirloom they created.

But, I will say that, yes, the topic of heirlooms in the garden is a very debated concept.